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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg our success rate

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with having the greatest guests ever on

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the para cast this year continues

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unabated with gene and Chris we've got a

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lot of ground to cover so instead of

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boring you with our preamble of the week

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and explaining what's going on we're

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just going to jump right to our guests

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to his Chris all Beck and we'll refer to

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him as Chris a and we'll refer to our

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Chris's either Chris Oh or crispy

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depending on my point of view if I don't

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call him by his original birth name Kay

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Kay Barnes

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in any case Chris topic of course is the

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co-author with Jacques fillet of wonders

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in the sky which is basically a book

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that covers older UFO cases from

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biblical ages to 1879 so if we want to

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think that maybe UFOs are all secret

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weapons what kind of secret weapons they

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have in 1879 that cause all these things

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to happen and will of course be having

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Chris a answer your questions about all

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this but before we move beyond that

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let's get to the beginning here Chris a

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Chris our Beck what attracted you to the

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study of folklore UFOs things like that

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hi yeah well when I was about 13 years

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old I decided I wanted to read every

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book ever published in the in the local

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university library so I'd spend long

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hours there just sitting at a table and

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I'd be playing truant half the time to

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be honest and just going through every

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book on folklore greek mythology and so

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on that I could find I became interested

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in parapsychology first partly because

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of a couple of personal experiences

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which today I wouldn't know how to

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classify them at all and also because I

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thought they were a very interesting

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challenge to establish Dogma I became a

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member of the ancient astronaut Society

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through reading some mangy old paperback

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books at a market I found by a Erich von

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däniken and then I began writing to the

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authors of some of the articles

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published there and surprise surprise

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they they replied to me so I become

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quite quite early in that sense I mean

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in age 13 14 15 I struck up a friendship

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with W Raymond Drake who was one of the

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first writers in this field or in the

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field of ancient astronauts that is in

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the 1960s he was already publishing

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books about the possibility that even

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the Sun was in Hamlet in inhabited and

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so on which at the time I thought was

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quite strange but now in hindsight I

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realized that people have speculated

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about life in the Sun for over 150 years

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so it's not such a strange idea perhaps

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then after that I I well I went through

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the states in 1990 when I was 18 years

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old and I met some of these writers then

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in 1991 I came to Spain and that was a

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big adventure to the earth is the whole

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story there but I just came here with

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lots of notes and books and things and

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with the idea of researching European

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folklore looking for more information

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about ancient UFOs anomalies in general

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well here I am all these all these years

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later so I got into the UFO community

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here in Spain I was accepted into that

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and they just started that way I suppose

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let me go back to what you said at the

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beginning if you're answered that you

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had a couple of personal experiences

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would you care to give us the basics

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well

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I became interested in parapsychology

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when I was about 13 because I felt that

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I'd heard voices of some kind and it was

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quite specific information so I decided

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that either I was some kind of radio

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transmitter transmitter or I was

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experiencing anything psychosis or

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whatever I began to research it and I

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discovered a whole world of well

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interesting experiences anomalies books

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on psychiatry and so on and that in a

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sense drove me further into

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parapsychology but I wouldn't be able to

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say that I believe any of the

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experiences I had at that age were we're

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either unique or paranormal but it

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certainly inspired me to get deeper into

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this field again how old were you when

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this happened I was around 13 years old

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I used to well that's when you had your

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experiences yeah yeah I mean you know

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then I had them over a period of years I

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was more interested in you know a

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finding any kind of explanation I could

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and I also discovered I remember that

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many young teenagers had this kind of

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experience and I didn't feel

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particularly strange or unique in that

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sense and I began getting all kinds of

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literature on psychiatry psychoses and

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and so on to see if I could find some

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kind of explanation but you know I mean

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now I'm that I was 13 then and that was

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30 years ago so I would look upon that

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today from a different level of maturity

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and an experience well a slightly better

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understanding of science but it's it's

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too late for me to test any of that

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because of course it all happened 30

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years ago you mentioned the interest in

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ancient astronauts and we know that even

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mr. Drake was not the first writer on

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the subject had French of course another

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British author who wrote books on the

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subject

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also Desmond Leslie wrote the first part

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of flying saucers have landed the

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contactee book about the experiences of

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George Adamski but a lot of people

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ignored part one of the book which was

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of course about ancient astronauts and I

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don't know if he ever heard of this guy

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jana fourtner who wrote under the name

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why and ebon Aharon for Jim Mosely

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saucer news yeah I believe I I have

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heard of him actually yes it's it's it's

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a name I've come across before I believe

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yeah he was one of the pioneers he was

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writing about in the 1950s but let's get

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to the area that helps us leap off to

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the studies you did with Jacques Vallee

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if I can just correct you about the idea

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that he was a pioneer because I've just

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been writing about the origin of the

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ancient astronaut theory in general and

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you know there's this roots of I mean

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there were books published and articles

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published going back to the 18th century

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in which people speculated that people

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had come or our ancestors had come from

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other planets

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there was the Austrian missionary Martin

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de bravas over who was born in 1717 and

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he he speculated that maybe the the

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jungles that he was visiting then in in

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South America were populated by tribes

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who'd perhaps fallen from space that

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comes from other planets and then this

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theory was taken up around 1822 and

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discussed a little bit more in in

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English

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originally the he was from he was from

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Austria but then it entered the English

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language around 18 around 1822 but then

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even then I mean in the 17th century

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we have Francis Godwin bishop of

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hereford who introduced the whole motif

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of ancient astronauts in a novel saying

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that the the Indian tribes of the Red

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Indians he said that

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of America with possibly people who had

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come from the moon and and and so on and

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so on the the actual that the history of

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ancient astronauts is is vast I mean

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compared to what's been written in the

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last 50 or 60 years it's it's a lot

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older and a lot more interesting you see

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a lot more interesting and we've got a

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break in a moment for a couple of pieces

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of business from our benefactors but I'm

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going to ask you to begin this with our

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next segment and that is why are these

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earlier writings more interesting than

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the more recent ones with which we are

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familiar once again remind you listeners

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if you go to the podcast calm of the

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power cast calm you get a copy when you

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sign up to our weekly newsletter of

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Chris O'Brien's secrets of the

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mysterious valley sign up for our weekly

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newsletter at the Peres cast com we've

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got Chris our Beck with Gene and Chris

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be your in the berry cast first game

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attack of the rockets and it was a

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critically acclaimed success and now

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there is the coming of the protectors a

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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

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because evil forces on our distant

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planet are planning to conquer the earth

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this is gripping science fiction of the

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classic kind attack of the rock codes

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and the coming of the protectors find

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out more at rockets calm that's rock oh

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about the burka guy so you may know a

274
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few things about him for example you are

275
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276
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277
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279
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done to prove just how effective they

280
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are it's true and he can email you the

281
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test results just visit go Berkey comm

282
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290
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eight seven seven eight eight six three

296
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six five three goldberg e.com home of a

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perky guy we'd like to hear from you if

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00:14:08,329 --> 00:14:05,099
you have a comment or question about the

299
00:14:09,589 --> 00:14:08,339
para cast sent it to News at the para

300
00:14:13,069 --> 00:14:09,599
cast com

301
00:14:15,049 --> 00:14:13,079
that's news at the para cast calm and

302
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:15,059
don't forget to visit our famous para

303
00:14:22,999 --> 00:14:18,409
cast community forums at forum dot the

304
00:14:26,119 --> 00:14:23,009
podcast.com one of those Chris and Chris

305
00:14:28,309 --> 00:14:26,129
shows again we have to stop doing that

306
00:14:30,169 --> 00:14:28,319
repeating the error of our ways but we

307
00:14:33,349 --> 00:14:30,179
just get so many great guests named

308
00:14:36,139 --> 00:14:33,359
Chris we can't do it Chris all Beck who

309
00:14:38,989 --> 00:14:36,149
of course has been studying UFOs and

310
00:14:41,239 --> 00:14:38,999
folklore in antiquity and his co-author

311
00:14:43,909 --> 00:14:41,249
with Jacques fillet of wonders in the

312
00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:43,919
sky now Chris hey you were telling us at

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00:14:49,789 --> 00:14:46,529
the end of the previous segment how some

314
00:14:51,049 --> 00:14:49,799
of those older writings about possible

315
00:14:54,279 --> 00:14:51,059
ancient astronauts seemed more

316
00:14:57,609 --> 00:14:54,289
interesting to you why well yes because

317
00:15:00,769 --> 00:14:57,619
the theories of von Daniken and his

318
00:15:04,369 --> 00:15:00,779
predecessors in the in the 20th century

319
00:15:07,249 --> 00:15:04,379
well they arose in the in the middle of

320
00:15:09,289 --> 00:15:07,259
a period in which science fiction was

321
00:15:12,199 --> 00:15:09,299
very popular and there were there

322
00:15:14,659 --> 00:15:12,209
already as science fiction works which

323
00:15:18,859 --> 00:15:14,669
discussed the possibility our ancestors

324
00:15:22,309 --> 00:15:18,869
had come from other planets so when the

325
00:15:24,859 --> 00:15:22,319
same ideas can be found in books

326
00:15:27,589 --> 00:15:24,869
published in the middle of or the

327
00:15:30,789 --> 00:15:27,599
beginning of the 19th century in France

328
00:15:34,759 --> 00:15:30,799
the science fiction was beginning to

329
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:34,769
blossom at that time it almost seemed to

330
00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:37,470
erupt in a in a kind of vacuum at least

331
00:15:45,079 --> 00:15:41,220
it didn't have a fictional basis so

332
00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:45,089
there are many French writers who began

333
00:15:52,729 --> 00:15:48,689
to say that the fossils that we find

334
00:15:55,309 --> 00:15:52,739
under our feet had possibly had possibly

335
00:15:59,419 --> 00:15:55,319
fallen from the sky after the explosion

336
00:16:01,329 --> 00:15:59,429
of the planet a kind of ninth or tenth

337
00:16:06,429 --> 00:16:01,339
planet or however you want to count them

338
00:16:11,029 --> 00:16:06,439
and that people had fallen to earth

339
00:16:14,479 --> 00:16:11,039
among artifacts and pieces of masonry

340
00:16:17,479 --> 00:16:14,489
and and signs of civilization and and so

341
00:16:19,819 --> 00:16:17,489
on and that the animals even the dead

342
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:19,829
ones had been scattered from this

343
00:16:26,659 --> 00:16:24,809
wrecked planet in space and fallen on

344
00:16:29,869 --> 00:16:26,669
the earth and this was one of the the

345
00:16:32,509 --> 00:16:29,879
earliest ideas about the origin of

346
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:32,519
fossils people wondered whether or not

347
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,170
people the certain number of people

348
00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:36,000
wondered whether fossils that later

349
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:39,300
Charles Darwin would turn into the basis

350
00:16:44,329 --> 00:16:41,790
of his theories revolution had come from

351
00:16:46,990 --> 00:16:44,339
another planet and even this idea really

352
00:16:51,050 --> 00:16:47,000
is is a lot older than that because

353
00:16:54,139 --> 00:16:51,060
prehistoric tools Flint knives and so on

354
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:54,149
had often been attributed to beings in

355
00:16:59,569 --> 00:16:57,360
space to intelligences above the sky so

356
00:17:02,329 --> 00:16:59,579
there's a there's a definite vein of

357
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:02,339
interest in the ancient astronaut theory

358
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:05,819
going back many centuries and even

359
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:07,199
towards the end of the nineteenth

360
00:17:12,350 --> 00:17:09,990
century just fifty years before it was

361
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:12,360
reintroduced in the Flying Saucer Age

362
00:17:18,289 --> 00:17:15,270
people were already speculating about

363
00:17:20,659 --> 00:17:18,299
whether our ancestors had come from

364
00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:20,669
outer space so I find out the history of

365
00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:22,230
it to be much more interesting because

366
00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:27,150
it emerged in an imaginative vacuum in a

367
00:17:31,970 --> 00:17:29,190
sense there was nothing in science

368
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:31,980
fiction at the time to to suggest that

369
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:34,200
it was a popular idea well certainly let

370
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:36,120
me ask you a viewpoint about this do you

371
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:38,610
think that what we do report about

372
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:40,860
interactions with higher beings in

373
00:17:45,260 --> 00:17:43,440
biblical times that as far as you're

374
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:45,270
concerned it does indicate that we got

375
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:47,880
into contact with et and I'll just say

376
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:51,450
it was God the pilot of a spaceship or

377
00:17:58,810 --> 00:17:55,020
the general well in my opinion most of

378
00:18:02,770 --> 00:17:58,820
the of the cases that have proposed as

379
00:18:06,020 --> 00:18:02,780
abductions or UFO sightings in the Bible

380
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,030
were not they were just symbolic

381
00:18:11,630 --> 00:18:09,120
representations of God or if you look at

382
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:11,640
these these sightings of these events in

383
00:18:18,020 --> 00:18:14,610
their original context you quickly reach

384
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:18,030
the the conclusion that they they were

385
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:20,370
created as stories for a specific

386
00:18:25,610 --> 00:18:23,250
purpose they certainly weren't created

387
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:25,620
so that 2,000 years later we could

388
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:28,200
wonder whether these wheels were made of

389
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:31,500
metal and had motors attached and so on

390
00:18:37,070 --> 00:18:34,080
I think that virtually every every story

391
00:18:40,010 --> 00:18:37,080
I've seen from a biblical source or an

392
00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:40,020
apocryphal source can be explained

393
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:45,000
whether it was a some kind of symbol or

394
00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:47,220
sometimes it was just the evolution of

395
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:47,820
the prior

396
00:18:54,790 --> 00:18:50,640
a prior idea whether that was wheels

397
00:18:59,570 --> 00:18:54,800
within wheels and and whatever Ezekiel

398
00:19:01,550 --> 00:18:59,580
said he saw or manifestations of

399
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:01,560
chariots of the gods

400
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:04,500
generally speaking the Bible is not a

401
00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:07,530
very good source for for UFO cases I

402
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:09,720
wonder how the people who set down the

403
00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:11,910
Bible would think about the way today we

404
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:14,760
have billions of people taking words

405
00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:17,310
like that literally I would say that the

406
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:20,220
people who wrote the Bible who are many

407
00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:22,650
many people writing each each each part

408
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:24,780
of it over a period of time would

409
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:26,760
probably think that we're we're we're

410
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:30,990
wasting so much so well there's so much

411
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:34,050
imagery without giving it any meaning

412
00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:37,110
because at that time practically all

413
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:41,400
imagery symbolism and sightings as it

414
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:43,950
were had some kind of meaning they had

415
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:46,530
some kind of function in their original

416
00:19:54,140 --> 00:19:50,610
historical context whereas today we we

417
00:19:58,580 --> 00:19:54,150
just open any webpage on on this matter

418
00:20:00,380 --> 00:19:58,590
and we see all kinds of strange

419
00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:00,390
sightings in the sky and there's

420
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,380
absolutely no symbolic explanation at

421
00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:06,240
all so I imagine a bit from their point

422
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:08,280
of view would be very surprising that

423
00:20:15,370 --> 00:20:11,220
we're not trying to to interpret these

424
00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:15,380
strange wonders in the sky in a in a

425
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:18,780
religious or political way what is your

426
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:20,490
feeling about this personally do you

427
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:24,330
think that the beings that we met up

428
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:26,970
with through the ages were visitors from

429
00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:30,510
other planets really well it would be a

430
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:34,350
nice idea I'm not against the the the

431
00:20:40,150 --> 00:20:37,290
possibility that some of the cases that

432
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:40,160
we've been collecting over the years

433
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:43,310
show I don't know some sign of

434
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:46,170
intelligence at least it would be it

435
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:49,890
would be wrong to to think that that we

436
00:20:56,180 --> 00:20:53,570
have to reject all of that material as

437
00:20:59,600 --> 00:20:56,190
misinterpretations or fantasies and so

438
00:21:01,139 --> 00:20:59,610
on so I would like to think that among

439
00:21:04,859 --> 00:21:01,149
all of that there's

440
00:21:10,289 --> 00:21:04,869
some indication of intelligent life or

441
00:21:13,459 --> 00:21:10,299
some kind of visit from elsewhere but my

442
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:13,469
my interest in in UFOs doesn't stem from

443
00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:16,690
any kind of belief system and to be

444
00:21:22,169 --> 00:21:19,080
honest if tomorrow it was it was somehow

445
00:21:24,629 --> 00:21:22,179
demonstrated that none of this had a

446
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:24,639
basis in reality it wouldn't it wouldn't

447
00:21:32,879 --> 00:21:27,369
shake me at all because that's not the

448
00:21:35,969 --> 00:21:32,889
reason why I study UFOs and folklore and

449
00:21:38,180 --> 00:21:35,979
so on so yeah it would be great I hope

450
00:21:40,619 --> 00:21:38,190
there is the signs of extraterrestrial

451
00:21:43,829 --> 00:21:40,629
visitation among all these among these

452
00:21:44,909 --> 00:21:43,839
stories that if there's not well that's

453
00:21:47,969 --> 00:21:44,919
that's fine too

454
00:21:49,139 --> 00:21:47,979
after the break I'm going to give you

455
00:21:52,529 --> 00:21:49,149
the opportunity to answer one question

456
00:21:54,239 --> 00:21:52,539
before krispy takes over and that is now

457
00:21:58,769 --> 00:21:54,249
that we are learning more and more about

458
00:22:00,389 --> 00:21:58,779
the potential for life of some sort to

459
00:22:03,239 --> 00:22:00,399
exist on other planets in the universe

460
00:22:06,299 --> 00:22:03,249
possibly billions of life-bearing

461
00:22:08,639 --> 00:22:06,309
planets we see here now that we possibly

462
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:08,649
have billions of life-bearing worlds

463
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:11,200
which means possibly some of them are

464
00:22:17,009 --> 00:22:15,039
able to travel into space maybe from

465
00:22:18,959 --> 00:22:17,019
star to star not just planet to planet

466
00:22:20,849 --> 00:22:18,969
of course I wouldn't presume to guess

467
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:20,859
whether they can engage some form of

468
00:22:26,399 --> 00:22:23,440
warp drive or even if such a thing

469
00:22:29,549 --> 00:22:26,409
actually exists so Chris will ask you in

470
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:29,559
our next segment whether you feel that

471
00:22:36,029 --> 00:22:33,580
is in a way proof that maybe something

472
00:22:38,399 --> 00:22:36,039
like that did happen in the past and is

473
00:22:41,009 --> 00:22:38,409
happening now more to come our guest is

474
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:41,019
Chris aw Beck with gene and Chris be

475
00:22:53,140 --> 00:22:50,470
the nation's largest independently owned

476
00:22:59,340 --> 00:22:53,150
and operated talk radio network the

477
00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:03,340
is there a secret UFO agenda to strange

478
00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:05,630
creatures from the darkest corners of

479
00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:07,940
the mind roam the earth is there

480
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:10,760
evidence for mind control time travel or

481
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:14,390
devious government conspiracies find out

482
00:23:18,610 --> 00:23:16,010
the inside scoop on the latest

483
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:18,620
conspiracies paranormal activity and

484
00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:21,230
important phenomena when you subscribe

485
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to Tim Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

486
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jam-packed with stories special book and

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DVD promotions and the best news is

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490
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send an email with your name and address

492
00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:45,559
to Mister UFO at what TV net attached

493
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mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out what

494
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495
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all the stresses we inflict upon it it

496
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still works hard to stay in balance

497
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thousands upon thousands of people rely

498
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499
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500
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501
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502
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503
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504
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and more HP extract paired with healthy

505
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lifestyle choices like good nutrition

506
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and exercise can give you a life free of

507
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pain sickness and fear recapture your

508
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youthful vitality and experience your

509
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body healing itself with the aid of HP

510
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:36,480
extract is extremely effective and it

511
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starts working in just days visit HP

512
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513
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514
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515
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price in over 10 years

516
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:48,510
that makes heart and body extract as

517
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:50,580
great a value now as it was the first

518
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:52,529
day we sold it a healthy heart is a

519
00:25:00,669 --> 00:24:54,690
happy heart call eight six six two nine

520
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:00,679
five 5305 or go to HP extract calm yeah

521
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:03,270
well I did but now that I do I'm not so

522
00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:05,130
sure sir Johnson I got a mission for you

523
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:07,080
I could change your life good sir it

524
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:08,640
involves traveling halfway around the

525
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:10,080
world we'll add so much as half a clue

526
00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:10,890
of where you're going or what you're

527
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:12,390
gonna do when you get there situation

528
00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:14,610
normal sir I'll be leading this mission

529
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:15,990
Johnson so I'll be telling you what to

530
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:17,700
do you sir that's right Johnson and I

531
00:25:21,260 --> 00:25:19,080
say first things first

532
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:21,270
good plan sir and when I say is first is

533
00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:23,460
food always remember that Johnson food

534
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:25,380
is a big deal sir my brother Lord can

535
00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:26,250
give us a really good deal on some

536
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:28,500
surplus MREs Johnson if you've got half

537
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,360
a brain in that empty head of yours

538
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:32,159
you'll call the freeze dry guy like I

539
00:25:36,649 --> 00:25:33,990
did that food is better for you

540
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:36,659
rehydrates faster and it's good Johnson

541
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:39,210
and it keeps for up to thirty years we

542
00:25:43,130 --> 00:25:41,370
be gone that long sir well I hope not

543
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:43,140
now get your supplies organized and meet

544
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:45,330
me down to the pier at dawn on Sunday we

545
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:47,410
sailed

546
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569
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571
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and enter code PLO w this is actually

572
00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:11,600
you listening to the podcast the gold

573
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:25,310
Chris aw Becca's joining us we're

574
00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:28,050
talking about UFOs ancient astronauts

575
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:30,750
folklore UFOs in history and before we

576
00:27:35,780 --> 00:27:33,030
did the break I asked him about the fact

577
00:27:37,790 --> 00:27:35,790
that more and more evidence of other

578
00:27:40,340 --> 00:27:37,800
planets revolving around other star

579
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:40,350
systems has appeared supposedly this is

580
00:27:45,590 --> 00:27:42,510
story now that one of the planets may

581
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:45,600
have water even although it's the size

582
00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:47,850
of Neptune not the size of Earth does

583
00:27:54,410 --> 00:27:51,990
that really serve Chris or Beck as more

584
00:27:56,900 --> 00:27:54,420
and more indications of the reality the

585
00:28:00,620 --> 00:27:56,910
possible reality of ancient astronauts

586
00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:00,630
being astronauts and of today ufos being

587
00:28:06,860 --> 00:28:03,240
visitors from space well at least it

588
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,870
opens the door to interesting new new

589
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:09,360
possibilities of course it's great to

590
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:12,210
find evidence that planets do exist

591
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:15,810
which might be life bearing and I mean

592
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:18,540
it statistically it seems to be a

593
00:28:24,290 --> 00:28:21,200
certainty that there are other planets

594
00:28:26,570 --> 00:28:24,300
which we could call neighbors in a sense

595
00:28:28,970 --> 00:28:26,580
I mean their life life bearing neighbors

596
00:28:32,780 --> 00:28:28,980
potentially the problem really is that

597
00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:32,790
there's no evidence that any of these

598
00:28:37,580 --> 00:28:34,830
planets have anything to do with

599
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,590
whatever we see here on earth although

600
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:40,320
it's a very nice idea I would never be

601
00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:42,320
able to join those two dots because

602
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:45,300
there's no indication that anything has

603
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:47,640
ever flown from one of those planets

604
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:49,650
that we haven't really seen yet to here

605
00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:52,050
on earth where we don't have any proof

606
00:28:57,620 --> 00:28:55,080
either so yeah it'd be very nice idea

607
00:28:59,480 --> 00:28:57,630
and I hope it's true and if it hasn't

608
00:29:01,250 --> 00:28:59,490
happened already it would be great if it

609
00:29:02,540 --> 00:29:01,260
did happen in the future as I said

610
00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:02,550
before I'm not really counting on it

611
00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:05,670
it's one theory to explain the kind of

612
00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:08,100
stories that we've been collecting it's

613
00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:11,550
not maybe the best theory but it's it's

614
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:15,540
certainly among those which deserve the

615
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:17,730
popularity it has Chris O'Brien here

616
00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:19,110
first of all I want to welcome you to

617
00:29:23,630 --> 00:29:21,240
the show I've been a huge fan of Jacques

618
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:23,640
ballets for many years since I was a kid

619
00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:26,310
really and I was very very excited to

620
00:29:32,390 --> 00:29:29,280
see you as a co-author for wonders in

621
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:32,400
the sky and we were just briefly talking

622
00:29:36,050 --> 00:29:32,760
about

623
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:36,060
the Bible before we have a thread at our

624
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:39,450
forum at forum dr. Peric ascom where our

625
00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:41,010
listeners can ask questions of our

626
00:29:45,410 --> 00:29:43,590
guests an alien Esquire has an

627
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:45,420
interesting question relating to

628
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:48,930
biblical images and he asked to what

629
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:51,330
extent if any has your research focused

630
00:29:57,020 --> 00:29:54,150
on interpretations and the symbolism of

631
00:29:59,360 --> 00:29:57,030
UFO and mythical objects as featured in

632
00:30:00,920 --> 00:29:59,370
biblical hand or non secular artwork

633
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,930
from historical periods such as a

634
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:03,120
renaissance there's been an awful lot

635
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:05,250
made of these strange little crafts that

636
00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:07,590
are in the background in the sky and in

637
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:09,180
Renaissance paintings and other

638
00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:11,310
paintings from the Middle Ages it has

639
00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:13,740
your work really focused on any of these

640
00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:16,590
and what what do you make of those well

641
00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:19,230
when we were compiling the book we did

642
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:23,030
consider having a section on UFOs in art

643
00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:26,910
the idea is very nice that over the

644
00:30:32,290 --> 00:30:27,990
centuries

645
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:32,300
UFOs have been depicted in art works and

646
00:30:37,940 --> 00:30:35,640
yeah why not you know on cave walls and

647
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:37,950
so on the problem that I personally have

648
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:40,050
with this and you know after discussing

649
00:30:46,610 --> 00:30:43,410
it with with Jax we have came to this

650
00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:46,620
conclusion I suppose that there's no

651
00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:49,260
real indication in any of these

652
00:30:57,020 --> 00:30:52,860
paintings that what they were depicting

653
00:31:00,010 --> 00:30:57,030
was the UFO phenomena or the UFO

654
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:00,020
phenomena well we see in general our

655
00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:03,000
religious symbols

656
00:31:08,660 --> 00:31:04,980
whether that's eyes I mean it could be

657
00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:08,670
eyes or triangles or angels and so on

658
00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:12,060
and so on which made a lot of sense when

659
00:31:16,550 --> 00:31:14,670
they were painted to the painter and

660
00:31:18,980 --> 00:31:16,560
they made a lot of sense to the people

661
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:18,990
who were paying for the painting too

662
00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:23,250
because most of these pictures were were

663
00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:26,580
made to order basically and each element

664
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:28,980
in these pictures made sense to the

665
00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:31,290
people of the time otherwise they

666
00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:34,380
probably wouldn't have risked their jobs

667
00:31:40,430 --> 00:31:37,140
to create them and and sell them to

668
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:40,440
noble families and so on so I would say

669
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:43,730
that we have to look at paintings

670
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:46,260
representing UFOs

671
00:31:51,289 --> 00:31:47,610
with a certain amount of skepticism

672
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:51,299
because we need to put everything in

673
00:31:57,169 --> 00:31:53,010
context and there are some very good

674
00:32:01,100 --> 00:31:57,179
resources on the on the internet which

675
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:01,110
show where many of these shapes come

676
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:06,000
from if we find some picture of the UFO

677
00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:08,370
phenomenon which could not be explained

678
00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:10,980
in a religious way it would definitely

679
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:14,040
go in the next version of the book so

680
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:15,840
far we haven't really found one the

681
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:18,780
problem with interpreting images in

682
00:32:24,049 --> 00:32:21,809
paintings and on walls cave walls

683
00:32:26,090 --> 00:32:24,059
graffiti and so on from thousands of

684
00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:26,100
years ago is that we have a very

685
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:30,059
preconceived idea of what a UFO should

686
00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:32,850
look like therefore when we see

687
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:35,549
thousands upon thousands of completely

688
00:32:42,169 --> 00:32:38,370
abstract and random shapes written on

689
00:32:44,090 --> 00:32:42,179
walls we naturally look or pay more

690
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:44,100
attention to those which look a little

691
00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:48,090
bit more like the UFOs that we even come

692
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:51,900
to know over the last 50 years the the

693
00:32:58,340 --> 00:32:55,260
problem in my opinion though is that our

694
00:33:02,810 --> 00:32:58,350
view of what UFOs should look like is

695
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:02,820
also a little twisted and has been has

696
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:06,120
evolved over the years which is why in

697
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:09,720
the 1950s 60s 70s and it was very

698
00:33:17,419 --> 00:33:12,450
popular in ancient astronaut books too

699
00:33:20,650 --> 00:33:17,429
to show any creature with antennae as if

700
00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:20,660
they were Martians or Venetians because

701
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:23,929
for a long time that's how we depicted

702
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:26,880
extraterrestrials with two antennae on

703
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:29,010
top of their heads which is really just

704
00:33:36,890 --> 00:33:33,150
a remnant of the revolution that radio

705
00:33:39,409 --> 00:33:36,900
technology caused in the 19th century in

706
00:33:41,419 --> 00:33:39,419
the beginning of the 20th century like

707
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:41,429
my favorite Martian the TV show from the

708
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:44,640
early sixties exactly ray Walston well

709
00:33:50,030 --> 00:33:46,530
as his antennas that come up out of his

710
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:50,040
head yeah exactly we have a kind of

711
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:53,090
deep-seated and probably forgotten or of

712
00:33:59,320 --> 00:33:55,290
Technology of communications technology

713
00:34:01,870 --> 00:33:59,330
if you look at if you read a book like

714
00:34:06,130 --> 00:34:01,880
Haunted media for example which I read

715
00:34:07,690 --> 00:34:06,140
recently about how technology evolved in

716
00:34:11,590 --> 00:34:07,700
the 19th century and beginning of the

717
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:11,600
20th to become a part of our cultural

718
00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:16,850
inheritance we look we looked upon new

719
00:34:21,630 --> 00:34:18,760
technologies like that like radio

720
00:34:25,149 --> 00:34:21,640
transmitters and so on as something

721
00:34:28,510 --> 00:34:25,159
practically parapsychological in itself

722
00:34:33,130 --> 00:34:28,520
which is why mediums in the 19th century

723
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:33,140
were often talking about how spirits

724
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:36,320
communicated using a kind of radio waves

725
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:38,510
and they would themselves call

726
00:34:42,909 --> 00:34:40,390
themselves like human radios

727
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:42,919
transmitters and practically all of the

728
00:34:49,389 --> 00:34:46,370
components of of their spiritualism in

729
00:34:53,610 --> 00:34:49,399
the in the 19th century were were drawn

730
00:34:58,810 --> 00:34:53,620
from new technologies so when we look at

731
00:35:01,360 --> 00:34:58,820
paintings and sketches and things in in

732
00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:01,370
in ancient books we know in other media

733
00:35:07,450 --> 00:35:04,430
what we really tend to do we we

734
00:35:12,070 --> 00:35:07,460
gravitate towards picking out those

735
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:12,080
which remind us of our own idea of what

736
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:14,330
a UFO looks like but unfortunately most

737
00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:16,130
of the time it's from our science

738
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:18,260
fiction or it's something like that

739
00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:20,210
because if you look on youtube today

740
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,670
virtually all UFOs look entirely

741
00:35:27,670 --> 00:35:25,280
different in general they're just points

742
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:27,680
of lying tour or blobs of color in the

743
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:31,790
sky and it will be very difficult to to

744
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,370
find ancient depictions of exactly what

745
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:36,640
we see today as UFO phenomena because

746
00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:40,130
they were just these amorphous I mean

747
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:43,190
today what we see a normally amorphous

748
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:45,800
shapes even the idea of a flying saucer

749
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:49,910
is pretty much old hat in a sense but

750
00:35:56,110 --> 00:35:53,210
people seeing a shape that looks just

751
00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:56,120
slightly like a flying saucer in an in

752
00:36:00,670 --> 00:35:58,370
an Egyptian tomb or somewhere like that

753
00:36:03,130 --> 00:36:00,680
would very quickly say well there you go

754
00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:03,140
there's a spaceship well this is the

755
00:36:07,630 --> 00:36:05,240
problem you need some kind of historical

756
00:36:09,610 --> 00:36:07,640
perspective of all this to make to make

757
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:09,620
sense of it and a lot of Ages comes from

758
00:36:12,530 --> 00:36:11,510
our own prejudices and tendencies to

759
00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:12,540
find pattern

760
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:15,480
right you're like a good prevailing

761
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,180
cultural context yeah exactly and if

762
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:21,240
tomorrow I find and I probably will a

763
00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:23,850
story in an old newspaper that says that

764
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:27,180
angels appeared and they have green skin

765
00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:29,730
though I mean right now some people will

766
00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:31,350
say oh look there we have some reptilian

767
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:33,990
x' and maybe thirty years ago they'd say

768
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:36,510
wow look green skin martians we can get

769
00:36:40,610 --> 00:36:38,130
into that perspective in our next

770
00:36:58,670 --> 00:36:40,620
segment Chris our Beck joins gene and

771
00:37:00,740 --> 00:36:58,680
crispy you're in the para cast attack of

772
00:37:03,050 --> 00:37:00,750
the rock aids has been well-received by

773
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:03,060
critics and readers alike it's a thrill

774
00:37:07,490 --> 00:37:05,160
a minute story you'll never forget a

775
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:07,500
former US military intelligence officer

776
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:10,140
is haunted by intense dreams about a

777
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:12,660
beautiful woman pleading for his help

778
00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:15,050
after a terrible battle in outer space

779
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:17,670
but the dreams turn out to be true and

780
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:19,950
thrust him into a telepathic love affair

781
00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:22,320
with a woman whose faraway planet is

782
00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:25,560
intent on destroying the earth and now

783
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:27,780
the gripping tale continues in the

784
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:30,510
coming of the protectors it's the second

785
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786
00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:35,100
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787
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:37,830
heroes against powerful fanatical

788
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:39,930
enemies that threaten the lives of

789
00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:42,060
freedom loving beings everywhere

790
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791
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825
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850
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854
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855
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856
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857
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860
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861
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863
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864
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865
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869
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870
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on the web at dr. ort ma n com hi this

871
00:41:07,370 --> 00:41:04,769
is Don Ecker and you are tuned into the

872
00:41:09,769 --> 00:41:07,380
para cast let me tell you what you're

873
00:41:13,069 --> 00:41:09,779
gonna hear stuff here that you probably

874
00:41:16,789 --> 00:41:13,079
won't hear anywhere else hear that

875
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,799
George so Chris Beck what we're saying

876
00:41:22,249 --> 00:41:18,720
here is we're viewing these in

877
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:22,259
accordance with the cultural perceptions

878
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:26,490
of the time so so depending on what we

879
00:41:31,309 --> 00:41:29,430
envision aliens to be that's what we get

880
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:31,319
what we see is what we get of course the

881
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:33,420
big question is therefore what is the

882
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:35,640
reality without the cultural

883
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:37,650
interpretation well I think it's

884
00:41:44,660 --> 00:41:41,220
necessary to change the way we we look

885
00:41:48,289 --> 00:41:44,670
at UFO cases this is something that I'm

886
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:48,299
working on now I have a project which

887
00:41:53,269 --> 00:41:49,890
I've been working on for a couple of

888
00:41:56,569 --> 00:41:53,279
years with another ufologist called

889
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:56,579
Martin Schaaf who's another British

890
00:42:02,809 --> 00:42:00,960
ufologist and really the he's he's an

891
00:42:05,870 --> 00:42:02,819
increase as an incredible brain for

892
00:42:08,779 --> 00:42:05,880
analyzing analyzing UFO reports

893
00:42:11,779 --> 00:42:08,789
particularly historical ones which is

894
00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:11,789
what we're focusing on using all kinds

895
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:15,240
of resources that weren't available

896
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:20,730
before and I'm referring to digital sort

897
00:42:24,799 --> 00:42:22,529
of digital observatories and things so

898
00:42:27,799 --> 00:42:24,809
we can calculate the positions of the

899
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:27,809
stars and the planet on any day at any

900
00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:31,710
hour in history he also has a deep

901
00:42:38,089 --> 00:42:36,180
knowledge of of geography and geophysics

902
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:38,099
and meteorology and so on so I'm working

903
00:42:44,839 --> 00:42:40,890
very closely with him to make sense as

904
00:42:46,710 --> 00:42:44,849
many historical reports as possible and

905
00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:46,720
we're compiling

906
00:42:50,820 --> 00:42:48,430
many of these now as part of this

907
00:42:52,770 --> 00:42:50,830
project which we hope to release in the

908
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:52,780
near future and it's going to be the

909
00:42:59,220 --> 00:42:55,690
first time anyone's ever approached the

910
00:43:02,130 --> 00:42:59,230
subject of a historical UFOs in this way

911
00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:02,140
that is we're going to be looking very

912
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:05,230
deeply into every technical aspect and

913
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:07,450
possible interpretation of every report

914
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:10,930
that we've the that we want to to

915
00:43:17,339 --> 00:43:13,590
analyze or which impresses us for not

916
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:17,349
resembling a natural phenomena more or

917
00:43:23,339 --> 00:43:19,810
something like that so with what I

918
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:23,349
consider this new wave of of ufologists

919
00:43:30,690 --> 00:43:27,400
using resources that weren't really

920
00:43:33,870 --> 00:43:30,700
available 20 or 30 years ago we're going

921
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:33,880
to be able to strip a lot of these

922
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,050
stories off their archaic sounding or

923
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:40,720
flowery content their their religious

924
00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:43,900
symbolism and get down to what exactly

925
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:46,540
the witnesses saw if they saw anything

926
00:43:53,900 --> 00:43:49,690
at all and it's interesting because in

927
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:53,910
we've we've taken books of of omens

928
00:44:00,270 --> 00:43:57,310
prodigies and so on from the 17th

929
00:44:04,859 --> 00:44:00,280
century for example which in general are

930
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:04,869
either embraced by by ufologists in the

931
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:09,040
know of historical UFOs as evidence of

932
00:44:15,630 --> 00:44:12,609
the alien visitation or whatever they

933
00:44:18,890 --> 00:44:15,640
are rejected wholesale by folklorists

934
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:18,900
and historians as the imaginations of

935
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:21,970
people with a with a political axe to

936
00:44:27,390 --> 00:44:24,250
grind what I've been doing with Martin

937
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:27,400
and him particularly with with all his

938
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:30,460
scientific resources and knowledge is to

939
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:33,300
see if there was a kernel of truth

940
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:37,570
behind these very old old cases and

941
00:44:42,810 --> 00:44:40,210
we're discovering that many of them that

942
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:42,820
do correspond with actual sightings

943
00:44:49,290 --> 00:44:46,530
whether that that was a meteor shower or

944
00:44:53,310 --> 00:44:49,300
some kind of objective deposition of

945
00:44:55,290 --> 00:44:53,320
planets and so on and this sort of gives

946
00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:55,300
us some hope in a sense because if we

947
00:45:00,600 --> 00:44:58,440
can show that a high percentage of

948
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:00,610
archaic cases

949
00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:04,770
were based on actual scientist of real

950
00:45:09,330 --> 00:45:06,520
anomalies at that time they were

951
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,340
consider normal is or not today then the

952
00:45:14,130 --> 00:45:12,160
cases which are even more anomalous

953
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:14,140
which are very strange which one might

954
00:45:21,350 --> 00:45:17,410
describe a cube with with arms and legs

955
00:45:24,540 --> 00:45:21,360
or whatever and maybe they too had a

956
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:24,550
basis in reality so what we're doing

957
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:26,130
we're looking at everything from

958
00:45:32,910 --> 00:45:30,220
typography to the to the the witnesses

959
00:45:35,340 --> 00:45:32,920
themselves their lives the weather at

960
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:35,350
the time in many of these places using

961
00:45:40,020 --> 00:45:37,870
digital resources we can get very deep

962
00:45:42,270 --> 00:45:40,030
into these cases these days and just as

963
00:45:44,430 --> 00:45:42,280
I said strip away a lot of this

964
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:44,440
symbolism to see what's left and we've

965
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:45,910
come to the conclusion that many of

966
00:45:51,450 --> 00:45:48,970
these cases do in fact show anomalies

967
00:45:53,550 --> 00:45:51,460
the thing I wonder about here is we have

968
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:53,560
enough trouble figuring out what

969
00:45:59,160 --> 00:45:56,170
somebody said 20 minutes ago and you

970
00:46:02,370 --> 00:45:59,170
look at for example political talk radio

971
00:46:04,620 --> 00:46:02,380
or cable TV news especially in the u.s.

972
00:46:07,110 --> 00:46:04,630
they can't agree what somebody said 20

973
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:07,120
minutes ago so how do we presume to

974
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:09,910
understand what somebody meant 2,000

975
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:13,030
years ago well two thousand years ago be

976
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:15,610
very difficult we we focus mainly on the

977
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:18,370
last two centuries the good thing is

978
00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:21,790
that because of the digitalization of

979
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:25,750
public libraries by Google and by

980
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:28,090
practically every library some way or

981
00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:29,980
another whether independently or not or

982
00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:33,400
through a commercial company like a

983
00:46:41,370 --> 00:46:37,390
newspaper archive calm we can find a lot

984
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:41,380
of reports made by scientists or by

985
00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:45,310
soldiers or politicians people who had

986
00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:48,190
absolutely no reason to invent what they

987
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:50,830
were what they were describing and they

988
00:46:55,170 --> 00:46:53,170
just put into their own words the

989
00:46:57,750 --> 00:46:55,180
content of their sighting they just

990
00:46:59,580 --> 00:46:57,760
described exactly what they saw which is

991
00:47:02,720 --> 00:46:59,590
very different from other periods in

992
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:02,730
history when there was this tendency to

993
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,850
to invent stories to give them well to

994
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:09,040
to prove some religious or political

995
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:11,910
point by concentrating on the

996
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:15,090
on scientific journals or at least on

997
00:47:20,530 --> 00:47:17,730
the observations of of people who had no

998
00:47:23,810 --> 00:47:20,540
reason to invent the tales such as

999
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:23,820
captains of ships for example we can

1000
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:28,050
find a whole series of reliable account

1001
00:47:35,930 --> 00:47:32,160
and of course today - which again I'm

1002
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:35,940
working on with with Martin Shaw we were

1003
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:40,380
able to to check many of the of the

1004
00:47:44,780 --> 00:47:43,050
smaller details in the statement so if

1005
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:44,790
someone says he was looking through the

1006
00:47:51,830 --> 00:47:47,970
West window and saw a certain thing over

1007
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:51,840
a mountain on on a particular day - at a

1008
00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:54,030
certain hour and at the same time he saw

1009
00:47:59,660 --> 00:47:55,500
the moon in a certain position of the

1010
00:48:02,390 --> 00:47:59,670
sky we can check those details and once

1011
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:02,400
you find enough details to correspond

1012
00:48:09,020 --> 00:48:06,000
with reality you end up sort of taking

1013
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:09,030
at face value in a sense the rest of

1014
00:48:13,670 --> 00:48:11,280
their of their testimony but it takes a

1015
00:48:16,610 --> 00:48:13,680
lot of a lot of research the problem in

1016
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:16,620
my opinion is that most of the people

1017
00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:20,550
who advocate the reality of UFOs who

1018
00:48:25,250 --> 00:48:23,400
defended acknowledge that it's a

1019
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:25,260
scientific problem really whether it's

1020
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:26,730
we're talking about parallel

1021
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:29,370
universities or whether it's visits from

1022
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:31,650
another another planet or whether it's

1023
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:32,970
all from the human mind it's a

1024
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:35,370
scientific problem so it would be

1025
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:38,880
difficult to to expect people who are

1026
00:48:43,340 --> 00:48:41,610
only trained in journalism and just

1027
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:43,350
sharing this information in a narrative

1028
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,250
sense as many books do to be able to to

1029
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:49,680
analyze these reports correctly so

1030
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:52,110
that's that I think is the future of

1031
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,810
UFOs it's the this subject it's to be

1032
00:48:59,480 --> 00:48:56,880
able to analyze things using modern

1033
00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:59,490
resources and getting to the kernel of

1034
00:49:05,180 --> 00:49:02,880
truth and if there there has to be a

1035
00:49:07,340 --> 00:49:05,190
kind of revolution and in this subject

1036
00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:07,350
because I mean even young kids these

1037
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:09,060
days have access to Google and all of

1038
00:49:14,420 --> 00:49:11,130
these all of these instruments one day

1039
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:14,430
are going to look very easy to use but

1040
00:49:20,150 --> 00:49:16,770
don't you wonder this great emphasis on

1041
00:49:22,310 --> 00:49:20,160
the fact that it must be eg UFOs can't

1042
00:49:25,150 --> 00:49:22,320
be anything else but ET we need to get

1043
00:49:27,490 --> 00:49:25,160
the message about our ET visitors out

1044
00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:27,500
government knows the truth and we want

1045
00:49:32,799 --> 00:49:29,859
disclosure don't you think that really

1046
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:32,809
inhibits proper research into what's

1047
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:36,049
going on well you know I don't I haven't

1048
00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:39,170
watched TV since the 2003 and I don't

1049
00:49:44,109 --> 00:49:41,990
buy any of these UFO magazines and and

1050
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:44,119
so I don't subscribe to anything and I

1051
00:49:49,180 --> 00:49:47,119
just work with the material on my own or

1052
00:49:53,049 --> 00:49:49,190
with or in collaboration with with the

1053
00:49:55,390 --> 00:49:53,059
colleagues so I don't find any of these

1054
00:49:58,539 --> 00:49:55,400
any of these books and magazines to

1055
00:50:03,190 --> 00:49:58,549
interfere with the process of research I

1056
00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:03,200
think that if if if you if you focus

1057
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:06,710
your I mean on these on these materials

1058
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:09,200
on this media as a as your main source

1059
00:50:17,770 --> 00:50:11,210
of information and there I'm sure yeah

1060
00:50:20,890 --> 00:50:17,780
avoid the taint yeah that's that's a

1061
00:50:24,099 --> 00:50:20,900
problem that we discuss here at the para

1062
00:50:28,029 --> 00:50:24,109
cast quite often is how people I think

1063
00:50:31,059 --> 00:50:28,039
have become lazy they tend to become

1064
00:50:34,779 --> 00:50:31,069
educated by the media by some of these

1065
00:50:37,569 --> 00:50:34,789
TV shows that are there to actually sell

1066
00:50:40,269 --> 00:50:37,579
soap and and fill up spaces between

1067
00:50:44,410 --> 00:50:40,279
advertising blocks and it's unfortunate

1068
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:44,420
that the culture I think by and large is

1069
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:47,690
being swayed by a Hollywood eyes sort of

1070
00:50:52,779 --> 00:50:49,970
pop culture version of these events and

1071
00:50:54,339 --> 00:50:52,789
it's good that you've you stayed above

1072
00:51:00,400 --> 00:50:54,349
the fray and that you haven't been

1073
00:51:03,789 --> 00:51:00,410
slimed or tainted intellectually by this

1074
00:51:06,339 --> 00:51:03,799
very unfortunate and I would say almost

1075
00:51:08,170 --> 00:51:06,349
I don't know disturbing a trend that's

1076
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:08,180
going on at least in the Western culture

1077
00:51:13,930 --> 00:51:11,930
and it's just you know I can't emphasize

1078
00:51:17,170 --> 00:51:13,940
enough how important it is to find good

1079
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:17,180
researchers and good authors and to do

1080
00:51:22,349 --> 00:51:19,490
your own research listeners and and make

1081
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:22,359
up your own mind based on on on really

1082
00:51:29,470 --> 00:51:25,730
well-thought-out research Chris all Beck

1083
00:51:31,870 --> 00:51:29,480
is here with Chris B and gene or Chris

1084
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:31,880
Owen gene or however you want it you're

1085
00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:39,609
not just an alternative to the

1086
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:42,220
mainstream media we're the premier

1087
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:45,920
independent talk radio network we are G

1088
00:51:51,970 --> 00:51:49,910
C end this is Dan pilla do you owe the

1089
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:51,980
IRS money you can't pay our tax debts

1090
00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:53,930
crippling you I've defended people from

1091
00:51:58,329 --> 00:51:56,240
the IRS for over 30 years I've helped

1092
00:51:59,680 --> 00:51:58,339
thousands and I can help you too I wrote

1093
00:52:01,450 --> 00:51:59,690
the book on IRS settlement and I'm

1094
00:52:05,170 --> 00:52:01,460
telling you there's no such thing as a

1095
00:52:07,329 --> 00:52:05,180
hopeless case call 834 no tax to finally

1096
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:07,339
get free of IRS debt with the IRS as new

1097
00:52:11,650 --> 00:52:08,720
programs there's never been a better

1098
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:11,660
time to solve your problem call 834 no

1099
00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:14,930
tax that's 803 for no tax or my website

1100
00:52:20,589 --> 00:52:18,500
Dan pillow comm we the people grow

1101
00:52:22,089 --> 00:52:20,599
cotton wheat fabric engraving can bed

1102
00:52:23,650 --> 00:52:22,099
strips and fibers to protect from

1103
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:23,660
counterfeit than carding to a private

1104
00:52:27,250 --> 00:52:25,520
bank having a led back at interest

1105
00:52:29,079 --> 00:52:27,260
forcing taxes to service debt this

1106
00:52:30,550 --> 00:52:29,089
capitalism or was Jefferson correct when

1107
00:52:32,170 --> 00:52:30,560
stating a central bank issuing the

1108
00:52:33,309 --> 00:52:32,180
public currency is a greater menace to

1109
00:52:35,050 --> 00:52:33,319
the liberties of the people than a

1110
00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:35,060
standing army hi Ted Anderson I'm

1111
00:52:38,290 --> 00:52:36,470
placing a free silver dollar in a book

1112
00:52:41,829 --> 00:52:38,300
that explains our monetary system call

1113
00:52:45,010 --> 00:52:41,839
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

1114
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:45,020
to understand the system call 866 to 237

1115
00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:50,810
that's 800 686 to 237 on Facebook on the

1116
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:52,670
news and in conversations with friends

1117
00:52:57,130 --> 00:52:55,310
or bombarded every day with advice on

1118
00:52:59,980 --> 00:52:57,140
how to be healthier from gluten free and

1119
00:53:01,960 --> 00:52:59,990
non-gmo diets to how much exercise and

1120
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:01,970
sleep the body needs but how much have

1121
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:03,770
you heard about alkalizing the body

1122
00:53:07,930 --> 00:53:05,930
alka vision plasma pH drops are a

1123
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:07,940
holistic and natural way to get your

1124
00:53:11,980 --> 00:53:10,400
body's ph levels back in balance just a

1125
00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:11,990
few drops in water will help your body

1126
00:53:16,089 --> 00:53:14,329
rid itself of harmful waste and even the

1127
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:16,099
healthiest of diets can be complemented

1128
00:53:20,859 --> 00:53:18,890
with your daily use of Alken plasma pH

1129
00:53:23,650 --> 00:53:20,869
drops who isn't looking for more vibrant

1130
00:53:26,589 --> 00:53:23,660
vigor and energy now buy two bottles of

1131
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:26,599
alkaviva pH drops and get $10 off your

1132
00:53:30,609 --> 00:53:29,119
order visit Alka vision comm or call

1133
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:30,619
eight hundred five hundred

1134
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:33,440
seven six one five Alka vision plasma pH

1135
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:35,359
drops are packed with a powerful

1136
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:36,890
combination of the most alkaline

1137
00:53:41,529 --> 00:53:39,170
minerals and compounds open the door to

1138
00:53:43,870 --> 00:53:41,539
greater health vitality and zest for

1139
00:53:45,519 --> 00:53:43,880
life alkalize your body supercharge your

1140
00:53:48,339 --> 00:53:45,529
health call eight hundred five hundred

1141
00:53:55,370 --> 00:53:48,349
six one five or head to alcove isn't

1142
00:54:03,380 --> 00:53:59,070
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1143
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:03,390
standard of paranormal radio and now

1144
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:12,310
here's Jane Steinberg if Chris ah BEC he

1145
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:15,520
wrote with Jacques fillet wonders in the

1146
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:18,640
sky examining more than 500 selected

1147
00:54:24,570 --> 00:54:21,250
report of sightings through the ages

1148
00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:24,580
krispy has more to say you know in going

1149
00:54:29,370 --> 00:54:26,590
through the book I was really surprised

1150
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:29,380
to see a number of sighting events that

1151
00:54:33,690 --> 00:54:31,330
actually were quite extensive that went

1152
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:33,700
across entire countries they were

1153
00:54:39,110 --> 00:54:36,370
probably seen by thousands of people to

1154
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:39,120
want to highlight a couple of those real

1155
00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:42,370
spectacular I'm citing events that that

1156
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:45,670
you feel were not mundane celestial

1157
00:54:49,260 --> 00:54:47,890
events that appeared to have some sort

1158
00:54:52,260 --> 00:54:49,270
of intelligence behind it or

1159
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,270
maneuverability let's say sure yeah if I

1160
00:54:57,150 --> 00:54:54,720
can just say that normally when when a

1161
00:55:00,140 --> 00:54:57,160
phenomenon is seen over a very wide area

1162
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:00,150
it normally indicates some kind of

1163
00:55:06,210 --> 00:55:03,640
astronomical source rather than a little

1164
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:06,220
object usually if something is seen in a

1165
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,970
in a small locality if it's just limited

1166
00:55:14,730 --> 00:55:11,920
by region if they just seen within a

1167
00:55:17,790 --> 00:55:14,740
province or a town then it's generally

1168
00:55:19,980 --> 00:55:17,800
something which has come down and is

1169
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:19,990
very particular to that moment and it's

1170
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:21,970
probably not a comment most of the time

1171
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:23,860
when something is seen far up in the sky

1172
00:55:28,140 --> 00:55:26,770
and it can be seen over a whole country

1173
00:55:31,620 --> 00:55:28,150
and thousands of people over different

1174
00:55:33,930 --> 00:55:31,630
regions it's not it's not usually a UFO

1175
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:33,940
it's it's normally something quite

1176
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:35,770
natural in any case yeah I have a couple

1177
00:55:42,750 --> 00:55:39,450
of of cases here which I had agreed and

1178
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:42,760
you can tell me what you think there's

1179
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:44,890
one which was published in the Richmond

1180
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:48,730
Democrat in LA County in Montana only

1181
00:55:53,310 --> 00:55:51,970
14th of June in 1888 I find this one

1182
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:53,320
interesting let's see what do you think

1183
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:56,170
it says though the title was what was it

1184
00:56:01,890 --> 00:55:58,480
which is a very typical title of anomaly

1185
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:01,900
reports of the 19th century a strange

1186
00:56:07,110 --> 00:56:05,040
phenomenon is reported at Sibley Iowa a

1187
00:56:08,339 --> 00:56:07,120
correspondent of the see of the shoe

1188
00:56:11,729 --> 00:56:08,349
City Journal

1189
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:11,739
says that on Sunday the 19th instant an

1190
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:14,710
egg-shaped cloud was seen near Sibley

1191
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:17,710
which gradually lowered itself until

1192
00:56:23,279 --> 00:56:20,799
about 15 feet from the ground when it

1193
00:56:25,620 --> 00:56:23,289
began rolling after the fashion of a

1194
00:56:28,739 --> 00:56:25,630
ball it followed the course the small

1195
00:56:31,489 --> 00:56:28,749
stream reaching a pasture the phenomenon

1196
00:56:34,859 --> 00:56:31,499
rolled bodily into a herd of cattle

1197
00:56:38,549 --> 00:56:34,869
deliberately laid hold of a fine steer

1198
00:56:41,069 --> 00:56:38,559
and carried him about 300 yards and let

1199
00:56:44,430 --> 00:56:41,079
him down on the opposite side of a

1200
00:56:47,700 --> 00:56:44,440
barbed-wire fence it then slowly rose

1201
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:47,710
upward and with a dull report burst then

1202
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:49,690
almost instantly vanished

1203
00:56:54,839 --> 00:56:52,720
he said that aside from a few scattering

1204
00:56:57,390 --> 00:56:54,849
clouds the heavens were clear at the

1205
00:56:59,219 --> 00:56:57,400
time it ends with the comment which is

1206
00:57:01,979 --> 00:56:59,229
what they often could at the end of

1207
00:57:04,319 --> 00:57:01,989
these articles or stories the whiskey

1208
00:57:10,410 --> 00:57:04,329
sold by Iowa drugstores must be a

1209
00:57:13,289 --> 00:57:10,420
villainous compound shades of Alexander

1210
00:57:15,930 --> 00:57:13,299
Hamilton in the Yeats enter Kansas case

1211
00:57:19,739 --> 00:57:15,940
that's right it would have been about

1212
00:57:22,049 --> 00:57:19,749
what I guess nine years later well yeah

1213
00:57:25,620 --> 00:57:22,059
that would have been yea proximately

1214
00:57:29,729 --> 00:57:25,630
okay you know I recall from my own

1215
00:57:32,969 --> 00:57:29,739
research in Colorado a in northern New

1216
00:57:34,829 --> 00:57:32,979
Mexico a very interesting 1888 event

1217
00:57:39,029 --> 00:57:34,839
that happened outside of Galisteo New

1218
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:39,039
Mexico during a town picnic a a fish

1219
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:41,890
shaped object descended with in plain

1220
00:57:46,739 --> 00:57:44,130
sight of quite a number of people and

1221
00:57:49,019 --> 00:57:46,749
strange little creatures got out and

1222
00:57:50,609 --> 00:57:49,029
appeared to get into an argument they

1223
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:50,619
were yelling at each other and pointing

1224
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:52,960
their fingers and they got aboard their

1225
00:57:57,839 --> 00:57:56,319
craft and and took off do you recall

1226
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:57,849
that one I don't remember if I saw that

1227
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:00,880
in the book or not well that wouldn't

1228
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:02,650
have appeared in the book because we

1229
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:07,210
stopped at 1879 and I don't remember

1230
00:58:12,529 --> 00:58:09,130
that case of hand

1231
00:58:14,999 --> 00:58:12,539
I mean Galisteo junction is famous

1232
00:58:19,370 --> 00:58:15,009
sighting I think there's been a small

1233
00:58:21,460 --> 00:58:19,380
confusion there because in March 1882

1234
00:58:24,910 --> 00:58:21,470
Mexican newspaper and now

1235
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:24,920
that a mysterious aerial fountain had

1236
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:27,680
appeared at Galisteo junction yeah okay

1237
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:30,530
that's it I got the day wrong right

1238
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:33,200
basically it was people looked up and

1239
00:58:37,810 --> 00:58:35,150
they saw these voices coming from the

1240
00:58:40,900 --> 00:58:37,820
sky and they see a strange balloon and

1241
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:40,910
the crew is playing music and this kind

1242
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:43,609
of thing the trouble with this this tale

1243
00:58:48,550 --> 00:58:45,920
is that it was it was a definite fiction

1244
00:58:50,650 --> 00:58:48,560
because the people traveling on it we

1245
00:58:53,859 --> 00:58:50,660
were actually well there was a baby they

1246
00:58:56,380 --> 00:58:53,869
threw down a note in Chinese on on silk

1247
00:58:59,050 --> 00:58:56,390
paper and a carp and a flower and so on

1248
00:59:03,070 --> 00:58:59,060
I was a love letter by a young Chinese

1249
00:59:04,890 --> 00:59:03,080
woman and then her fiance by some

1250
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:04,900
incredible chance just happens to be

1251
00:59:10,780 --> 00:59:08,000
wandering through and Galisteo at that

1252
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:10,790
time and someone shows him the letter

1253
00:59:14,620 --> 00:59:13,280
and he says oh that's from my fiance

1254
00:59:18,430 --> 00:59:14,630
who's traveling in a hot-air balloon

1255
00:59:20,890 --> 00:59:18,440
shaped like a fish and and so on and so

1256
00:59:24,820 --> 00:59:20,900
on so basically just a loves a love

1257
00:59:27,310 --> 00:59:24,830
story of 18 18 remember all those

1258
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:27,320
details I better go back and recheck my

1259
00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:33,050
own research here's some questions we

1260
00:59:36,839 --> 00:59:33,950
have quite a number of questions

1261
00:59:40,650 --> 00:59:36,849
actually a lot of folks are very very

1262
00:59:44,050 --> 00:59:40,660
enthused about you being on the show and

1263
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:44,060
you know you you are able to ID some

1264
00:59:50,260 --> 00:59:46,970
fairly specific sites in some of these

1265
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,270
ancient sighting reports and SRL one of

1266
00:59:54,700 --> 00:59:52,160
our posters at forum about the podcast

1267
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:54,710
calm is wondering if any of your

1268
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:56,290
research has led investigators

1269
01:00:00,520 --> 00:59:57,970
archaeologists or perhaps

1270
01:00:03,310 --> 01:00:00,530
anthropologists to these ancient sites

1271
01:00:05,859 --> 01:00:03,320
where possible UAP encounters were cited

1272
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:05,869
in the research and if so is there

1273
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:07,760
anything of value worth sharing in other

1274
01:00:11,230 --> 01:00:09,369
words have you have you inspired any

1275
01:00:13,329 --> 01:00:11,240
scientists to actually go out and do

1276
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:13,339
further work out in the field with some

1277
01:00:20,109 --> 01:00:15,770
of these reports if they have they've

1278
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:20,119
been very quiet about it but on the

1279
01:00:24,820 --> 01:00:21,530
other hand I have inspired myself

1280
01:00:28,450 --> 01:00:24,830
because next week on the 8th of October

1281
01:00:31,780 --> 01:00:28,460
I'm going to Ohio and I want to visit a

1282
01:00:35,190 --> 01:00:31,790
couple of places which I mentioned in

1283
01:00:39,370 --> 01:00:35,200
a book that I'm writing myself now and

1284
01:00:43,180 --> 01:00:39,380
also a case that appears in wonders in

1285
01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:43,190
the sky so yeah I mean next week I'll be

1286
01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:44,720
I'll be visiting in a couple of places

1287
01:00:50,590 --> 01:00:46,990
myself but as far as scientists

1288
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:50,600
concerned I mean actual scientists I

1289
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:53,570
don't know it's it's possible that

1290
01:01:00,100 --> 01:00:55,370
they've expressed some interest but then

1291
01:01:02,410 --> 01:01:00,110
again a as you said before really the we

1292
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:02,420
we don't find much evidence of what

1293
01:01:06,850 --> 01:01:04,850
exactly happened 20 minutes ago so to

1294
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:06,860
find physical evidence of what might

1295
01:01:12,670 --> 01:01:09,200
have happened 150 years ago it's a lot

1296
01:01:16,350 --> 01:01:12,680
more difficult know here's a question

1297
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:16,360
from teams sheepsquatch one of our more

1298
01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:19,730
creative posting names at foreign dr.

1299
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:22,160
Peric ascom and he's wondering about

1300
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:24,770
ancient reports of abductions or missing

1301
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:28,490
time incidents let's say of from the

1302
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:32,330
1879 period going back are there any of

1303
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:33,920
these types of reports that could be

1304
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:36,650
tied to any sort of UFO activity or do

1305
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:40,130
you think this whole idea is new well

1306
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:43,450
the there were a lot of very interesting

1307
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:46,720
stories from some very long time ago and

1308
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:50,210
the one that interests me most currently

1309
01:01:58,540 --> 01:01:53,890
would be the visions of the British

1310
01:02:02,800 --> 01:01:58,550
mystic called Jane LED and this was a

1311
01:02:08,620 --> 01:02:02,810
mystic who who lived from 1620 throw its

1312
01:02:11,770 --> 01:02:08,630
way 1623 to 1700 for and she began to

1313
01:02:14,410 --> 01:02:11,780
write her visions down in Diaries and

1314
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:14,420
it's very interesting because we're

1315
01:02:22,830 --> 01:02:18,910
talking about a 17th century mystic who

1316
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:22,840
described on the one hand a plethora of

1317
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:26,090
UFO sightings very similar to the ones

1318
01:02:31,930 --> 01:02:29,450
we have today of luminous objects that

1319
01:02:36,070 --> 01:02:31,940
come down through the clouds and then go

1320
01:02:38,690 --> 01:02:36,080
back up again and she also mentioned

1321
01:02:43,630 --> 01:02:38,700
sort of manifestations of the same thing

1322
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:43,640
in her room she also talks about her own

1323
01:02:48,109 --> 01:02:46,910
abductions and what she called

1324
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:48,119
Transportation's

1325
01:02:54,020 --> 01:02:52,410
into the sky so yeah as far as I'm

1326
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:54,030
concerned one of the most interesting

1327
01:03:00,580 --> 01:02:57,450
cases would be that of of Jane led I

1328
01:03:03,170 --> 01:03:00,590
spent several years looking into into

1329
01:03:05,330 --> 01:03:03,180
her Diaries and into her life and I'm

1330
01:03:08,570 --> 01:03:05,340
hoping to be able to write about this at

1331
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:08,580
some time in the future but it really

1332
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:11,310
provides a very direct parallel with

1333
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:15,450
abduction narratives today I'm gonna ask

1334
01:03:21,220 --> 01:03:17,910
you more about abductions in a few

1335
01:03:25,010 --> 01:03:21,230
moments we have Chris aw Bek joining us

1336
01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:25,020
exploring strange encounters in

1337
01:03:30,980 --> 01:03:27,990
historical times which in the book of

1338
01:03:33,020 --> 01:03:30,990
course that he did with Jacques Vallee

1339
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:33,030
wonders in the sky covered the period

1340
01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:37,170
through 1879 with Jean and Chris B

1341
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:49,500
do you need a website well you can get a

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planet are planning to conquer the earth

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welcome back to to the para cast the

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01:08:11,470 --> 01:08:02,420
gold standard of paranormal radio and

1438
01:08:13,930 --> 01:08:11,480
now here's Jane Steinberg with Jean and

1439
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:13,940
Chris and the para cast Chris avec joins

1440
01:08:17,769 --> 01:08:15,770
us I have the left-field question which

1441
01:08:19,990 --> 01:08:17,779
I do these are the questions that never

1442
01:08:21,490 --> 01:08:20,000
occurred anyway there's a perception on

1443
01:08:25,090 --> 01:08:21,500
the part of some people and I don't

1444
01:08:27,249 --> 01:08:25,100
disagree with the premise completely I

1445
01:08:30,070 --> 01:08:27,259
think it might happen in some cases that

1446
01:08:34,420 --> 01:08:30,080
some of the UFO sightings that we hear

1447
01:08:37,570 --> 01:08:34,430
about from world war ii and later may

1448
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:37,580
have been caused by military tests

1449
01:08:42,579 --> 01:08:39,920
aircraft that some of these abductions

1450
01:08:44,829 --> 01:08:42,589
were the result of mind-control or other

1451
01:08:46,900 --> 01:08:44,839
kinds of psychological experiments on

1452
01:08:49,300 --> 01:08:46,910
the part of the military or other

1453
01:08:52,690 --> 01:08:49,310
agencies what's your take on that Chris

1454
01:08:53,470 --> 01:08:52,700
or Beck I'd say that it's it's possible

1455
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:53,480
I suppose

1456
01:09:00,910 --> 01:08:59,359
I mean testing military devices in view

1457
01:09:03,970 --> 01:09:00,920
of people who don't know what they're

1458
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:03,980
seeing is bound to lead to UFO reports

1459
01:09:09,730 --> 01:09:06,770
so there's definitely some degree of

1460
01:09:12,550 --> 01:09:09,740
misidentification in that sense as far

1461
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:12,560
as the idea that I don't know the

1462
01:09:17,740 --> 01:09:15,890
government or military people can enter

1463
01:09:20,260 --> 01:09:17,750
into more intimate contact with the

1464
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:20,270
human mind and manipulate us and abduct

1465
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:23,210
us and so on I personally haven't seen

1466
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:26,330
any evidence for it but then I don't

1467
01:09:33,190 --> 01:09:29,690
normally focus on on that period I mean

1468
01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:33,200
most of what I study is from before 1947

1469
01:09:39,370 --> 01:09:37,279
then I I am interested however and this

1470
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:39,380
this theory the the whole conspiration

1471
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:41,210
theory so I hope the whole conspiracy

1472
01:09:48,190 --> 01:09:45,410
theory of UFOs and contact and so on

1473
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:48,200
because it reminds me a lot of of a

1474
01:09:54,580 --> 01:09:51,049
story of engineer an Irish engineer who

1475
01:09:59,380 --> 01:09:54,590
who lived in Australia in the 1860s

1476
01:10:01,660 --> 01:09:59,390
frederick birmingham who had a UFO

1477
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:01,670
vision and we mentioned this in wonders

1478
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:04,190
in the sky he basically saw a kind of

1479
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:06,800
arc like a Noah's Ark

1480
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:10,490
descend from the sky and in this exact

1481
01:10:17,710 --> 01:10:14,690
way then he meets the the pilot or at

1482
01:10:19,450 --> 01:10:17,720
least the owner of this craft who tells

1483
01:10:21,790 --> 01:10:19,460
him that this is basically what he has

1484
01:10:23,140 --> 01:10:21,800
to build in his own time at some point

1485
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:23,150
in the future in that way he can

1486
01:10:28,510 --> 01:10:25,850
revolutionize air transport but this guy

1487
01:10:30,670 --> 01:10:28,520
who had this vision and wrote about it

1488
01:10:34,210 --> 01:10:30,680
in a book he called the memorandum book

1489
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:34,220
it was just a diary really in 1873 he

1490
01:10:40,900 --> 01:10:37,610
sort of slowly went mad and there was a

1491
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:40,910
point in which he was trying to sell his

1492
01:10:47,770 --> 01:10:43,760
his invention his blueprints for a

1493
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:47,780
flying ship in the eighteen seventies

1494
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:49,490
and eighties nobody wanted to buy it

1495
01:10:52,630 --> 01:10:51,290
from him because it was a very strange

1496
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:52,640
idea and probably wouldn't have worked

1497
01:10:58,300 --> 01:10:54,650
anyway but he believed that this is what

1498
01:11:02,110 --> 01:10:58,310
the spirit of this UFO craft had tried

1499
01:11:06,130 --> 01:11:02,120
to to get him to do to invent an airship

1500
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,140
and sell it to the government and he

1501
01:11:10,900 --> 01:11:08,480
finally lost his job probably because he

1502
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:10,910
was obsessed with with trying to build

1503
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:13,490
this machine that he was spending more

1504
01:11:18,730 --> 01:11:15,050
and more time on it and all his money

1505
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:18,740
and so on and he even went to America

1506
01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:21,050
from Australia to try to sell it there

1507
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:23,840
I'm looking for any kind of counter

1508
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:26,450
things or documents which tell me about

1509
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:28,130
his life in America I haven't found many

1510
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:30,560
so far and he finally came to the

1511
01:11:33,910 --> 01:11:32,270
conclusion that he'd lost his job and

1512
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:33,920
his life had gone totally downhill

1513
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:36,530
because Queen Victoria and her

1514
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:38,570
government was trying to stop his

1515
01:11:43,390 --> 01:11:40,610
research he believed and probably

1516
01:11:46,660 --> 01:11:43,400
wrongly the Queen Victoria had and it

1517
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:46,670
was somehow sort of carrying out a kind

1518
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:48,650
of vendetta or something against him and

1519
01:11:53,140 --> 01:11:50,960
making him get removed from his

1520
01:11:54,370 --> 01:11:53,150
government posts because he had a he was

1521
01:11:57,670 --> 01:11:54,380
he was working in the government at the

1522
01:12:00,280 --> 01:11:57,680
time and trying to destroy him because

1523
01:12:03,100 --> 01:12:00,290
he thought that Queen Victoria was

1524
01:12:06,130 --> 01:12:03,110
afraid that if this airship ever fell

1525
01:12:10,270 --> 01:12:06,140
into enemy hands then Britain would lose

1526
01:12:13,620 --> 01:12:10,280
it world dominance so the idea of the

1527
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:13,630
conspiracy theory is very old and

1528
01:12:17,890 --> 01:12:15,530
historically I find it very interesting

1529
01:12:20,020 --> 01:12:17,900
that I don't really have an opinion

1530
01:12:20,409 --> 01:12:20,030
about about modern ones I just see them

1531
01:12:22,330 --> 01:12:20,419
as a

1532
01:12:24,699 --> 01:12:22,340
kind of development from what came

1533
01:12:27,159 --> 01:12:24,709
before that that kind of reminds me of

1534
01:12:29,709 --> 01:12:27,169
you know but you I think what Jacques

1535
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:29,719
Vallee would consider his his probably

1536
01:12:35,500 --> 01:12:31,249
his most important work which is

1537
01:12:39,459 --> 01:12:35,510
passport - magana which he spent years

1538
01:12:41,949 --> 01:12:39,469
compiling of what he then thought were

1539
01:12:44,139 --> 01:12:41,959
misinterpreted possible UFO type

1540
01:12:46,109 --> 01:12:44,149
encounters in the celtic countries and

1541
01:12:49,540 --> 01:12:46,119
elsewhere of fairies

1542
01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:49,550
leprechauns brownies sprite lights that

1543
01:12:52,689 --> 01:12:50,329
sort of thing

1544
01:12:55,169 --> 01:12:52,699
which harkens back to our conversation

1545
01:12:57,729 --> 01:12:55,179
about the cultural trappings of the time

1546
01:13:01,000 --> 01:12:57,739
kind of fueling the interpretive sense

1547
01:13:02,739 --> 01:13:01,010
of witnesses and how that morphs over

1548
01:13:06,850 --> 01:13:02,749
time and and now that we're a high-tech

1549
01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:06,860
space potentially spacefaring species we

1550
01:13:11,370 --> 01:13:08,329
tend to see these things and describe

1551
01:13:13,569 --> 01:13:11,380
them in more high-tech terms do you

1552
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:13,579
subscribe to that idea that this

1553
01:13:20,350 --> 01:13:16,489
particular mystery the the truly

1554
01:13:22,779 --> 01:13:20,360
mysterious part of it is morphing itself

1555
01:13:24,879 --> 01:13:22,789
over time to be more acceptable to

1556
01:13:27,009 --> 01:13:24,889
witnesses or do you think the witnesses

1557
01:13:30,939 --> 01:13:27,019
are are putting the details on these

1558
01:13:33,310 --> 01:13:30,949
reports I don't think that the

1559
01:13:36,310 --> 01:13:33,320
phenomenon itself is evolving in any way

1560
01:13:37,899 --> 01:13:36,320
which is probably not a very popular

1561
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:37,909
opinion among a lot of your listeners

1562
01:13:41,830 --> 01:13:39,530
but I don't I don't believe that the

1563
01:13:44,469 --> 01:13:41,840
phenomenon is adapting itself I think

1564
01:13:46,989 --> 01:13:44,479
that people have always described

1565
01:13:50,799 --> 01:13:46,999
strange things and they always describe

1566
01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:50,809
it in their own terms which is why we

1567
01:13:57,629 --> 01:13:54,249
find centuries ago tales of flying ice

1568
01:14:00,969 --> 01:13:57,639
flying there was a there's actually an

1569
01:14:03,639 --> 01:14:00,979
account from China about flying cops to

1570
01:14:06,819 --> 01:14:03,649
go with the flying saucers and people

1571
01:14:09,759 --> 01:14:06,829
talked about daggers and swords in the

1572
01:14:12,009 --> 01:14:09,769
sky and so on there's no reason to

1573
01:14:14,169 --> 01:14:12,019
believe that UFOs adopted the shape of

1574
01:14:16,509 --> 01:14:14,179
the sword just because people use swords

1575
01:14:19,709 --> 01:14:16,519
more commonly at the time and I don't

1576
01:14:23,919 --> 01:14:19,719
think that there's any reason to suppose

1577
01:14:27,330 --> 01:14:23,929
UFO occupants would adopt the shape of a

1578
01:14:30,189 --> 01:14:27,340
fairy or a vampire or a witch or a devil

1579
01:14:32,589 --> 01:14:30,199
just because it was what was seen at the

1580
01:14:33,390 --> 01:14:32,599
time and it doesn't make a great deal of

1581
01:14:36,090 --> 01:14:33,400
sense

1582
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:36,100
to me I don't know well I feel that what

1583
01:14:41,580 --> 01:14:39,760
contradicts it is that we we believe now

1584
01:14:43,380 --> 01:14:41,590
what they're extraterrestrials or

1585
01:14:48,060 --> 01:14:43,390
something so so what we see you also

1586
01:14:50,189 --> 01:14:48,070
adapted to adapted to our expectation of

1587
01:14:52,110 --> 01:14:50,199
what they're going to be I I don't know

1588
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:52,120
I find it very strange and a very

1589
01:14:56,340 --> 01:14:54,010
strange concept that the this changes

1590
01:14:59,160 --> 01:14:56,350
that you know if you study more folklore

1591
01:15:01,740 --> 01:14:59,170
evolution of folklore mythology legends

1592
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:01,750
you you discover that historical

1593
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:06,640
personages and the tales have adapted to

1594
01:15:12,959 --> 01:15:08,770
the expectations with every generation

1595
01:15:16,410 --> 01:15:12,969
so if you look back at King Arthur or

1596
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:16,420
any any legendary person whether it's

1597
01:15:21,450 --> 01:15:19,360
the Greek gods or whoever they be just

1598
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:21,460
constantly are being adapted by our own

1599
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:23,650
culture I mean Thor today is a superhero

1600
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:26,290
who can travel in a spaceship and so on

1601
01:15:32,370 --> 01:15:29,290
I so personally no I don't believe that

1602
01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:32,380
the phenomena mean evolves to meet our

1603
01:15:37,770 --> 01:15:35,920
expectations but if our interpretations

1604
01:15:40,590 --> 01:15:37,780
are evolving over the years the big

1605
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:40,600
question asking is what is really behind

1606
01:15:47,729 --> 01:15:44,560
it what is the actual phenomenon shorn

1607
01:15:51,060 --> 01:15:47,739
of all our interpretations of it or is

1608
01:15:55,020 --> 01:15:51,070
it so alien to our consciousness that we

1609
01:15:57,330 --> 01:15:55,030
have to process this in some way we're

1610
01:15:59,610 --> 01:15:57,340
going to have to pursue that in our next

1611
01:16:01,770 --> 01:15:59,620
segment with Chris aw Bek joining us we

1612
01:16:04,860 --> 01:16:01,780
also have many many many questions from

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our listeners and let me remind you if

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you subscribe to our weekly podcast

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newsletter you get a copy of the e-book

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edition of secrets of the mysterious

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Valley from Chris O'Brien just go to the

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cycle feed in other books when you're

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01:21:09,410 --> 01:21:07,760
Chris ah Beck the question on the table

1723
01:21:12,260 --> 01:21:09,420
before we get back to listener questions

1724
01:21:14,420 --> 01:21:12,270
and some from Krispies is okay if we're

1725
01:21:16,100 --> 01:21:14,430
interpreting this in terms of our

1726
01:21:18,590 --> 01:21:16,110
culture over the years which we've gone

1727
01:21:21,860 --> 01:21:18,600
into over and over again what is the

1728
01:21:25,130 --> 01:21:21,870
reality behind it all well this is

1729
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:25,140
probably the point in which I I'm most

1730
01:21:31,190 --> 01:21:28,050
well I my opinions differ from those of

1731
01:21:34,070 --> 01:21:31,200
my co-author Jack's Valley because I

1732
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:34,080
don't see what we call the UFO

1733
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:36,480
phenomenon as a as a as a body of

1734
01:21:42,170 --> 01:21:38,580
phenomenon in itself that is the

1735
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:42,180
manifestation of a single thing I look

1736
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:43,890
at it in a very different way when we

1737
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:48,330
see photos of UFOs videos of UFOs

1738
01:21:52,700 --> 01:21:50,610
generally speaking we see in tiny

1739
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:52,710
different objects and different

1740
01:21:57,890 --> 01:21:54,690
phenomena in every single photo it's

1741
01:22:00,650 --> 01:21:57,900
very difficult to find two photos of the

1742
01:22:02,540 --> 01:22:00,660
same object I can with ten year

1743
01:22:04,030 --> 01:22:02,550
difference I mean it's not that it's not

1744
01:22:06,530 --> 01:22:04,040
impossible but it's extremely difficult

1745
01:22:08,870 --> 01:22:06,540
we were always looking at the you know

1746
01:22:12,350 --> 01:22:08,880
the the new thing whether it's flying

1747
01:22:15,860 --> 01:22:12,360
banana shaped Brown objects in the sky

1748
01:22:18,890 --> 01:22:15,870
or whether it's red stars or a green

1749
01:22:22,970 --> 01:22:18,900
rectangle or and so on whether it's a

1750
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:22,980
transparent ball that lands on hill and

1751
01:22:30,650 --> 01:22:27,360
I my my view of all this is that there's

1752
01:22:34,090 --> 01:22:30,660
I don't see any link between any of

1753
01:22:37,630 --> 01:22:34,100
these things I don't think that a fiery

1754
01:22:41,420 --> 01:22:37,640
triangle has very much in common with a

1755
01:22:45,170 --> 01:22:41,430
box with wheels that seem hopping off

1756
01:22:47,450 --> 01:22:45,180
into the distance for example and so I

1757
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:47,460
could never answer or try to answer the

1758
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:49,890
question what is the phenomenon because

1759
01:22:55,910 --> 01:22:53,010
I just see a very wide selection of

1760
01:22:58,370 --> 01:22:55,920
things of different stimuli of different

1761
01:23:01,810 --> 01:22:58,380
phenomena and if someone describes to me

1762
01:23:05,900 --> 01:23:01,820
I don't know a weird light that was

1763
01:23:09,260 --> 01:23:05,910
traveling in circles in the sky and his

1764
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:09,270
uncle says yeah he once or an object

1765
01:23:14,330 --> 01:23:11,690
shaped like a fish or a penguin

1766
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:14,340
hiding behind a cloud and it was silver

1767
01:23:18,260 --> 01:23:16,050
I say yeah that's great but I just see

1768
01:23:20,290 --> 01:23:18,270
two different things there I don't yeah

1769
01:23:22,190 --> 01:23:20,300
this is this is probably one of the

1770
01:23:24,610 --> 01:23:22,200
palaces there's a kind of logical

1771
01:23:26,810 --> 01:23:24,620
fallacy here in in ufology the

1772
01:23:29,180 --> 01:23:26,820
everything that is weird

1773
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:29,190
is connected just because it's in the

1774
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:32,610
sky it's for me it's exactly the same

1775
01:23:37,370 --> 01:23:34,850
logic as saying you know all the kind of

1776
01:23:40,220 --> 01:23:37,380
garbage we see are scattered on the

1777
01:23:42,380 --> 01:23:40,230
ground must be connected even if it's

1778
01:23:44,690 --> 01:23:42,390
you know there's a there's a can of coke

1779
01:23:46,910 --> 01:23:44,700
here and a and a piece of wood over

1780
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:46,920
there I just don't see any connection

1781
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:49,530
between all these which is why I find it

1782
01:23:55,310 --> 01:23:51,690
more interesting to to study each case

1783
01:23:57,860 --> 01:23:55,320
individually but I'm unable to to say

1784
01:24:00,500 --> 01:23:57,870
that this represents a single phenomenon

1785
01:24:03,050 --> 01:24:00,510
yeah I think that's a very good point

1786
01:24:07,070 --> 01:24:03,060
and it's well taken there are a number

1787
01:24:08,510 --> 01:24:07,080
of reports in historic record which you

1788
01:24:11,709 --> 01:24:08,520
point out in your book wonders in the

1789
01:24:15,950 --> 01:24:11,719
sky co-authored with jacques ballet of

1790
01:24:20,510 --> 01:24:15,960
actual interaction between witnesses and

1791
01:24:23,900 --> 01:24:20,520
occupants of craft I seem to recall is

1792
01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:23,910
it the Asguard case where I think beans

1793
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:26,370
were captured I don't I don't have that

1794
01:24:30,860 --> 01:24:28,410
particular case in front of me but do

1795
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:30,870
you want to well it was a bishop a

1796
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:34,080
Gabbard French bishop yeah that's the

1797
01:24:40,100 --> 01:24:36,510
whole origin of the word Magana its

1798
01:24:42,620 --> 01:24:40,110
sound passport a begonia it was at the

1799
01:24:46,959 --> 01:24:42,630
time in France fifteen hundred years ago

1800
01:24:50,510 --> 01:24:46,969
so people there existed the idea that

1801
01:24:52,340 --> 01:24:50,520
bishops could travel in the sky and they

1802
01:24:55,250 --> 01:24:52,350
might even capture people from the

1803
01:24:58,610 --> 01:24:55,260
ground and so on and they they come from

1804
01:25:01,209 --> 01:24:58,620
a mysterious place called called Magana

1805
01:25:04,370 --> 01:25:01,219
so there are definitely stories of

1806
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:04,380
interaction between between objects and

1807
01:25:11,140 --> 01:25:07,410
and witnesses and I find very

1808
01:25:14,660 --> 01:25:11,150
interesting that there are stories

1809
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:14,670
describing landings with people coming

1810
01:25:18,470 --> 01:25:17,489
out and so on way back in the in the

1811
01:25:20,959 --> 01:25:18,480
nineteenth century

1812
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:20,969
in fact if you want to I can I can read

1813
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:23,730
you one please this is one that I want

1814
01:25:31,910 --> 01:25:24,930
to

1815
01:25:35,650 --> 01:25:31,920
it says of the the following it it's

1816
01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:35,660
dated April the 5th 1873 Zanesville Ohio

1817
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:38,310
to the editor of The Herald a most

1818
01:25:42,890 --> 01:25:40,080
extraordinary phenomenon was observed

1819
01:25:44,810 --> 01:25:42,900
near the village of Taylorsville a few

1820
01:25:47,660 --> 01:25:44,820
miles from this city about a week ago

1821
01:25:49,790 --> 01:25:47,670
mr. Thomas Inman whom your reporter can

1822
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:49,800
vouch for as a respectable farmer of

1823
01:25:54,260 --> 01:25:51,770
unquestionable truth and veracity

1824
01:25:56,480 --> 01:25:54,270
related the circumstances to the writer

1825
01:25:58,700 --> 01:25:56,490
and with his son who was also an

1826
01:26:00,980 --> 01:25:58,710
eyewitness is willing to make off to the

1827
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:00,990
truth of this statement one evening

1828
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:03,360
about two weeks ago while mr. Inman and

1829
01:26:08,330 --> 01:26:06,000
his son a young man were returning to

1830
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,340
their home from Taylorsville they saw a

1831
01:26:12,290 --> 01:26:10,320
light which they described as looking

1832
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:12,300
like a burning brushed pile

1833
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:14,610
near the zenith descending rapidly

1834
01:26:19,970 --> 01:26:17,250
towards the earth with a loud roaring

1835
01:26:22,580 --> 01:26:19,980
noise it struck the ground in the road a

1836
01:26:24,620 --> 01:26:22,590
short distance from them the blazing

1837
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:24,630
object flickered and flared for a few

1838
01:26:29,660 --> 01:26:27,210
moments and then faded into darkness as

1839
01:26:32,540 --> 01:26:29,670
a man dressed in a complete suit of

1840
01:26:35,510 --> 01:26:32,550
black and carrying a lantern emerged

1841
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:35,520
from it one evening about two weeks ago

1842
01:26:40,610 --> 01:26:38,400
while mr. Inman and his son a young man

1843
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:40,620
were returning to their home from

1844
01:26:45,140 --> 01:26:43,170
Taylorsville they saw a light which they

1845
01:26:47,900 --> 01:26:45,150
described as looking like a burning

1846
01:26:50,150 --> 01:26:47,910
brush pile near the zenith is sending

1847
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:50,160
rapidly towards the earth with a loud

1848
01:26:55,100 --> 01:26:52,650
roaring noise it struck the ground in

1849
01:26:57,260 --> 01:26:55,110
the road a short distance from them the

1850
01:26:59,060 --> 01:26:57,270
blazing object flickered and flared for

1851
01:27:01,820 --> 01:26:59,070
a few moments and then faded into

1852
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:01,830
darkness as a man dressed in a complete

1853
01:27:06,650 --> 01:27:03,570
suit of black and carrying a lantern

1854
01:27:09,530 --> 01:27:06,660
emerged from it the man walked a few

1855
01:27:11,930 --> 01:27:09,540
paces and stepped into a buggy which had

1856
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:11,940
not been observed before by either mr.

1857
01:27:14,990 --> 01:27:13,080
Inman or his son

1858
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:15,000
there was no horse attached to this

1859
01:27:20,510 --> 01:27:17,850
supernatural vehicle but no sooner had

1860
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:20,520
the man taken his seat then it started

1861
01:27:26,030 --> 01:27:23,010
to run noiselessly but with great

1862
01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:26,040
velocity along the highway and this had

1863
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:28,890
continued to do until it reached a deep

1864
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:31,650
gully into which it plunged when buggy

1865
01:27:37,550 --> 01:27:34,320
man and Lantern suddenly disappeared as

1866
01:27:38,660 --> 01:27:37,560
mysteriously as they came and ends by

1867
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:38,670
saying this phenomena

1868
01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:40,290
is certainly an extraordinary an

1869
01:27:44,630 --> 01:27:42,630
unexplainable one and sounds more like

1870
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:44,640
the vagary of a crazed brain than

1871
01:27:49,610 --> 01:27:47,250
anything else but both mr. Inman and his

1872
01:27:53,060 --> 01:27:49,620
son who has sober men and not given two

1873
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:53,070
superstitious notions agree precisely in

1874
01:27:58,490 --> 01:27:55,170
their statements and maintain that they

1875
01:28:01,520 --> 01:27:58,500
are strictly true so this is a very

1876
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:01,530
interesting case for me because in 1873

1877
01:28:07,700 --> 01:28:04,770
there wasn't really a body of science

1878
01:28:11,510 --> 01:28:07,710
fiction or hoax claims in newspapers

1879
01:28:14,450 --> 01:28:11,520
which spoke about the arrival of a fiery

1880
01:28:17,330 --> 01:28:14,460
object from the sky which lands or

1881
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:17,340
crashes in this case I imagine it lands

1882
01:28:24,050 --> 01:28:21,449
in front of witnesses and then it opens

1883
01:28:26,330 --> 01:28:24,060
or someone comes out the wall the lights

1884
01:28:28,490 --> 01:28:26,340
go out and in black comes out with a

1885
01:28:30,740 --> 01:28:28,500
kind of light in his hand gets into a

1886
01:28:32,900 --> 01:28:30,750
vehicle which they call a buggy but

1887
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:32,910
there's no horse there's there's no

1888
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:35,610
propulsion method at all and it just

1889
01:28:40,430 --> 01:28:37,770
rides away completely noiselessly and

1890
01:28:43,130 --> 01:28:40,440
and disappears his this is what you

1891
01:28:46,340 --> 01:28:43,140
might call a close encounter of the

1892
01:28:48,979 --> 01:28:46,350
third kind from 1873 although the the

1893
01:28:51,410 --> 01:28:48,989
date has raised a bit of suspicion I

1894
01:28:54,979 --> 01:28:51,420
mean April the fifth it's not able to

1895
01:28:57,370 --> 01:28:54,989
first and it does say that the events

1896
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:57,380
had happened a few weeks before this

1897
01:29:04,220 --> 01:29:00,239
it's extremely interesting historically

1898
01:29:06,830 --> 01:29:04,230
that that they would describe something

1899
01:29:09,650 --> 01:29:06,840
of this kind it's unmistakably something

1900
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:09,660
from the sky and a supernatural vehicle

1901
01:29:13,550 --> 01:29:11,489
I just wonder sometimes when I hear

1902
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:13,560
these stories and how our cultural

1903
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:15,690
interpretation of UFOs has changed over

1904
01:29:21,830 --> 01:29:18,449
the years whether that is the purpose of

1905
01:29:24,770 --> 01:29:21,840
the phenomenon itself to kind of

1906
01:29:27,100 --> 01:29:24,780
influence human development by

1907
01:29:29,209 --> 01:29:27,110
presenting us with the possibilities

1908
01:29:31,580 --> 01:29:29,219
certainly more and more people are

1909
01:29:33,820 --> 01:29:31,590
interested today in space travel we see

1910
01:29:37,610 --> 01:29:33,830
the evidence now of other planets

1911
01:29:39,530 --> 01:29:37,620
bearing possibly bearing life and you

1912
01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:39,540
wonder maybe the presence of UFOs over

1913
01:29:45,050 --> 01:29:42,420
the years has started us thinking in

1914
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:45,060
different directions that maybe we would

1915
01:29:50,090 --> 01:29:47,280
not have considered otherwise that's one

1916
01:29:52,220 --> 01:29:50,100
of the really crazy questions about the

1917
01:29:54,260 --> 01:29:52,230
UFO mystery and maybe Chrissa

1918
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:54,270
in our next segment can tell us more

1919
01:29:58,970 --> 01:29:55,650
about what do you think so whether he

1920
01:30:01,700 --> 01:29:58,980
thinks I just posed a wacky question in

1921
01:30:05,210 --> 01:30:01,710
other words to make it blunt are flying

1922
01:30:06,830 --> 01:30:05,220
saucers here to make us think think

1923
01:30:09,020 --> 01:30:06,840
about this folks if you want to get a

1924
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,030
free copy of secrets of the mysterious

1925
01:30:15,290 --> 01:30:11,760
valley by Chris O'Brien just sign up for

1926
01:30:19,100 --> 01:30:15,300
our weekly podcasts newsletter go to the

1927
01:30:22,220 --> 01:30:19,110
para cast com that's the para cast com

1928
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:22,230
and after that you will of course have

1929
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:24,810
the chance to subscribe and you'll get

1930
01:30:36,490 --> 01:30:26,850
your copy in a couple of days with Gina

1931
01:30:47,930 --> 01:30:42,190
headlines suspensions FCC investigation

1932
01:30:49,370 --> 01:30:47,940
California GCN first game attack of the

1933
01:30:51,410 --> 01:30:49,380
Rockets and it was a critically

1934
01:30:53,420 --> 01:30:51,420
acclaimed success and now there's the

1935
01:30:55,550 --> 01:30:53,430
coming of the protectors a former

1936
01:30:57,800 --> 01:30:55,560
military intelligence man is contacted

1937
01:31:00,350 --> 01:30:57,810
by a space woman in a dream a dream that

1938
01:31:01,970 --> 01:31:00,360
turns out to be a nightmare because evil

1939
01:31:03,230 --> 01:31:01,980
forces on our distant planet are

1940
01:31:05,870 --> 01:31:03,240
planning to conquer the earth

1941
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:05,880
this is gripping science fiction of the

1942
01:31:10,550 --> 01:31:08,610
classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

1943
01:31:13,340 --> 01:31:10,560
the coming of the protectors find out

1944
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:13,350
more at Rocco's calm that's rock oh it's

1945
01:31:18,830 --> 01:31:17,130
our Ock oids calm so here's what

1946
01:31:22,250 --> 01:31:18,840
happened I was placing an order online

1947
01:31:24,020 --> 01:31:22,260
the site went down it took hours before

1948
01:31:25,910 --> 01:31:24,030
it returned but I'd already placed the

1949
01:31:28,370 --> 01:31:25,920
order with another company if your site

1950
01:31:29,930 --> 01:31:28,380
goes down you could lose business and if

1951
01:31:32,270 --> 01:31:29,940
you have a business or personal site

1952
01:31:35,540 --> 01:31:32,280
you'll want to know it's easy to run and

1953
01:31:38,180 --> 01:31:35,550
it will stay online at I web your site

1954
01:31:40,970 --> 01:31:38,190
is hosted on one of the most reliable

1955
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:40,980
networks in the world talk to a sales

1956
01:31:54,860 --> 01:31:44,130
rep at iWeb comm use the promo code tech

1957
01:31:58,300 --> 01:31:54,870
Nite Owl for a special discount those we

1958
01:32:01,010 --> 01:31:58,310
should be able to depend on let us down

1959
01:32:03,050 --> 01:32:01,020
local officials saying help is on the

1960
01:32:05,480 --> 01:32:03,060
way while the folks here in Belle Harbor

1961
01:32:07,820 --> 01:32:05,490
say show me and don't depend on the

1962
01:32:09,770 --> 01:32:07,830
government to save you take action now

1963
01:32:12,770 --> 01:32:09,780
so that you're prepared for the next

1964
01:32:16,220 --> 01:32:12,780
disaster with my Patriot supply.com

1965
01:32:19,580 --> 01:32:16,230
get the best prices on storable food non

1966
01:32:21,710 --> 01:32:19,590
GMO seeds water filtration devices home

1967
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:21,720
canning equipment survival and

1968
01:32:25,820 --> 01:32:24,480
self-reliance books and more at my

1969
01:32:28,340 --> 01:32:25,830
Patriot supply.com

1970
01:32:32,700 --> 01:32:28,350
calls eight six six two two nine zero

1971
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:32,710
nine two seven we are hurting down here

1972
01:32:39,790 --> 01:32:36,170
immediately before it's time to survive

1973
01:32:40,770 --> 01:32:39,800
it's time to prepare my Patriot

1974
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:40,780
supply.com

1975
01:32:54,549 --> 01:32:52,610
came in this special announcement is for

1976
01:32:56,649 --> 01:32:54,559
business owners and leaders of

1977
01:32:59,500 --> 01:32:56,659
organizations who've been waiting for

1978
01:33:01,209 --> 01:32:59,510
the right time to build general steel

1979
01:33:03,009 --> 01:33:01,219
has made it impossible to wait any

1980
01:33:05,229 --> 01:33:03,019
longer with rock-bottom prices that

1981
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:05,239
could save you thousands that's right

1982
01:33:09,370 --> 01:33:07,489
general steel America's leader in pre

1983
01:33:11,259 --> 01:33:09,380
engineered structures is offering

1984
01:33:13,719 --> 01:33:11,269
buildings at prices you will never see

1985
01:33:16,810 --> 01:33:13,729
again don't miss these prices of 50 by

1986
01:33:19,270 --> 01:33:16,820
100 for $35,000 you heard right that's

1987
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:19,280
5000 square feet for $35,000

1988
01:33:23,290 --> 01:33:21,050
manufacturers if you need a larger

1989
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:23,300
building try a 100 by 100 commercial

1990
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:24,530
building for a hundred and twenty nine

1991
01:33:27,219 --> 01:33:26,570
thousand you can't afford to rent with

1992
01:33:29,589 --> 01:33:27,229
these prices

1993
01:33:31,270 --> 01:33:29,599
imagine a 70 by 100 foot church building

1994
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:31,280
for under sixty nine thousand dollars

1995
01:33:35,799 --> 01:33:33,530
with the economy improving and interest

1996
01:33:39,850 --> 01:33:35,809
rate still at historic lows you can't

1997
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:39,860
afford to wait so call 866 91 steel lock

1998
01:33:47,049 --> 01:33:43,610
in your price now call 866 91 steel

1999
01:33:49,410 --> 01:33:47,059
that's eight six six nine one seven 83

2000
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:49,420
35 we all know that berkey water

2001
01:33:53,649 --> 01:33:51,170
purification systems are the most

2002
01:33:55,689 --> 01:33:53,659
trusted name in water filtration as an

2003
01:33:57,399 --> 01:33:55,699
authorized Berkey dealer for over 6

2004
01:33:59,950 --> 01:33:57,409
years in serving thousands of satisfied

2005
01:34:01,899 --> 01:33:59,960
customers the Berkey guy offers amazing

2006
01:34:04,149 --> 01:34:01,909
specials for berkey water filtration

2007
01:34:05,830 --> 01:34:04,159
systems the murky light systems include

2008
01:34:07,660 --> 01:34:05,840
a set of self-sterilizing and re

2009
01:34:09,549 --> 01:34:07,670
cleanable black purification elements

2010
01:34:12,100 --> 01:34:09,559
that purify water by removing chlorine

2011
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:12,110
pathogenic bacteria cysts and parasites

2012
01:34:16,149 --> 01:34:14,090
to non detectable levels and remove

2013
01:34:18,310 --> 01:34:16,159
harmful chemicals such as herbicides and

2014
01:34:20,169 --> 01:34:18,320
pesticides order the Berkey light system

2015
01:34:22,750 --> 01:34:20,179
today complete with two black per key

2016
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:22,760
elements for only 231 dollars and the

2017
01:34:26,350 --> 01:34:24,650
Berkey guy will ship your order free of

2018
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:26,360
charge with the purchase of a per key

2019
01:34:30,580 --> 01:34:28,489
light the Berkey guy is also offering a

2020
01:34:33,430 --> 01:34:30,590
set of fluoride and arsenic filters for

2021
01:34:34,270 --> 01:34:33,440
only $39.99 that's over 30 percent off

2022
01:34:36,310 --> 01:34:34,280
the retail price

2023
01:34:38,799 --> 01:34:36,320
call the Berkey guy at one eighty seven

2024
01:34:40,989 --> 01:34:38,809
seven eight eight six three six five

2025
01:34:43,850 --> 01:34:40,999
three that's one eight seven seven eight

2026
01:34:46,490 --> 01:34:43,860
eight six three six five three or order

2027
01:34:52,459 --> 01:34:46,500
online it go perky calm that's go Berkey

2028
01:34:56,479 --> 01:34:52,469
calm today high they make pipe you're

2029
01:34:58,970 --> 01:34:56,489
listening to the parrot car so my long

2030
01:35:01,129 --> 01:34:58,980
convoluted question Chris avec and one

2031
01:35:02,660 --> 01:35:01,139
not original with gene Steinberg but

2032
01:35:05,899 --> 01:35:02,670
actually goes back to the days of Ray

2033
01:35:09,620 --> 01:35:05,909
Palmer our flying saucers here to make

2034
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:09,630
us think think about new frontiers new

2035
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:12,449
possibilities what do you think I think

2036
01:35:17,570 --> 01:35:14,610
that they certainly do make us think

2037
01:35:20,510 --> 01:35:17,580
whether that's their aim or not there's

2038
01:35:22,850 --> 01:35:20,520
another question but they definitely

2039
01:35:26,450 --> 01:35:22,860
have made us think I mean they've got me

2040
01:35:28,820 --> 01:35:26,460
into this into this subject and they've

2041
01:35:30,740 --> 01:35:28,830
got a lot of other people posing

2042
01:35:34,129 --> 01:35:30,750
questions about the nature of reality

2043
01:35:38,060 --> 01:35:34,139
and the nature of human experience

2044
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:38,070
there have been designs of craft based

2045
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:43,050
on on descriptions of UFOs in fact it

2046
01:35:48,410 --> 01:35:45,449
was sometime at the beginning of the

2047
01:35:50,330 --> 01:35:48,420
20th century I think I'll say 1906 I

2048
01:35:53,959 --> 01:35:50,340
might be slightly wrong and that

2049
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:53,969
somebody designed an airship based on

2050
01:36:00,770 --> 01:35:57,810
the description given by Ezekiel in the

2051
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:00,780
Bible and this is actually on on display

2052
01:36:03,919 --> 01:36:02,250
in a museum I don't have my notes here

2053
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:03,929
with me about that I don't know exactly

2054
01:36:09,500 --> 01:36:08,159
where that is but so you know over over

2055
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:09,510
the centuries people have definitely

2056
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:12,449
been inspired by anomalies that they see

2057
01:36:18,770 --> 01:36:15,330
to understand more really human

2058
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:18,780
curiosity originates in in things that

2059
01:36:25,220 --> 01:36:21,330
we can't immediately understand

2060
01:36:29,450 --> 01:36:25,230
so whether UFOs are definitely trying to

2061
01:36:33,229 --> 01:36:29,460
get us to think or whether the subject

2062
01:36:35,260 --> 01:36:33,239
of UFOs makes us think even if they

2063
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:35,270
don't exist or they're mainly a

2064
01:36:42,379 --> 01:36:40,170
psychosocial figment I don't know but

2065
01:36:44,990 --> 01:36:42,389
it's it's definitely a pertinent

2066
01:36:47,330 --> 01:36:45,000
question and and one I've pondered quite

2067
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:47,340
a lot here's an interesting question

2068
01:36:52,820 --> 01:36:50,010
that I have and and that has to do with

2069
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:52,830
patterns you know as a as a field

2070
01:36:57,420 --> 01:36:55,920
investigator and journalist for many

2071
01:37:00,930 --> 01:36:57,430
years I noticed

2072
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:00,940
that these events tend to cluster and

2073
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:04,690
they tend to to kind of come in flaps or

2074
01:37:09,750 --> 01:37:07,330
waves of activity in looking at an

2075
01:37:13,380 --> 01:37:09,760
incomplete obviously historical record

2076
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:13,390
do you have any sense of of times where

2077
01:37:18,170 --> 01:37:15,370
there's been peak periods or waves or

2078
01:37:20,340 --> 01:37:18,180
flaps of activity and times when there's

2079
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:20,350
there doesn't appear to be any activity

2080
01:37:26,640 --> 01:37:22,960
at all have you looked into that whole

2081
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:26,650
idea of patterning yeah it's it's a

2082
01:37:34,290 --> 01:37:31,210
difficult problem because if any event

2083
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:34,300
real or not helped sell newspapers at

2084
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:36,850
some point in history then it was

2085
01:37:40,440 --> 01:37:39,010
natural for other newspapers I mean

2086
01:37:43,380 --> 01:37:40,450
whether this is 20th century or

2087
01:37:46,020 --> 01:37:43,390
previously to come up with similar

2088
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:46,030
stories to to sell their newspapers to

2089
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:47,610
because there was a lot of competition

2090
01:37:55,910 --> 01:37:50,650
among computer among newspaper editors

2091
01:38:01,080 --> 01:37:55,920
at some point so whether a flap a wave

2092
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:01,090
represents actual actual sightings seen

2093
01:38:06,570 --> 01:38:04,330
in mass over over a period of time a

2094
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:06,580
short period of time or whether we're

2095
01:38:14,580 --> 01:38:10,810
looking at the spread of folklore the

2096
01:38:17,670 --> 01:38:14,590
spread of rumors and commercializing

2097
01:38:19,230 --> 01:38:17,680
that somehow to sell more copies of

2098
01:38:24,510 --> 01:38:19,240
newspapers which is really the objective

2099
01:38:27,150 --> 01:38:24,520
of most UFO cases until they started

2100
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:27,160
appearing in books it's it's very

2101
01:38:34,550 --> 01:38:31,210
difficult to say I mean I have found

2102
01:38:38,100 --> 01:38:34,560
cases which seemed to coincide with

2103
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:38,110
poltergeists or with other paranormal

2104
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:40,690
activities that going on in the same

2105
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:43,290
area at the same time working with

2106
01:38:50,190 --> 01:38:48,370
Martin Schaaf this British expert in all

2107
01:38:53,940 --> 01:38:50,200
things meteorological and astronomical

2108
01:38:56,940 --> 01:38:53,950
is who's doing some amazing work with me

2109
01:38:58,650 --> 01:38:56,950
using his digital resources and his and

2110
01:39:03,240 --> 01:38:58,660
his knowledge of meteorology and so on

2111
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:03,250
and we found very interesting focuses of

2112
01:39:10,030 --> 01:39:08,530
of cases where perhaps they see flying

2113
01:39:11,980 --> 01:39:10,040
starfish that's

2114
01:39:16,660 --> 01:39:11,990
one of the cases that we found in from

2115
01:39:18,940 --> 01:39:16,670
Montana and at the same time that this

2116
01:39:21,820 --> 01:39:18,950
was happening there were what seemed to

2117
01:39:26,770 --> 01:39:21,830
be poltergeist or something like that

2118
01:39:28,510 --> 01:39:26,780
going on quite nearby and nearby town or

2119
01:39:31,450 --> 01:39:28,520
by people were traveling in the two

2120
01:39:35,140 --> 01:39:31,460
different towns so I think that yeah

2121
01:39:39,580 --> 01:39:35,150
these things seem to happen in bunches

2122
01:39:41,170 --> 01:39:39,590
whether that indicates that they really

2123
01:39:44,590 --> 01:39:41,180
are happening like that or whether this

2124
01:39:47,350 --> 01:39:44,600
is just a way to exploit the initial

2125
01:39:49,270 --> 01:39:47,360
sighting or not for monetary gain is

2126
01:39:51,310 --> 01:39:49,280
another question I mean what happened

2127
01:39:52,210 --> 01:39:51,320
during the the airship wave was

2128
01:39:54,580 --> 01:39:52,220
basically that

2129
01:39:58,360 --> 01:39:54,590
yeah and that's that's been pointed out

2130
01:39:59,800 --> 01:39:58,370
by several researchers that it's hard to

2131
01:40:02,380 --> 01:39:59,810
separate the wheat from the chaff when

2132
01:40:05,140 --> 01:40:02,390
it comes to that particular very

2133
01:40:07,750 --> 01:40:05,150
celebrated wave of activity well how

2134
01:40:09,670 --> 01:40:07,760
about behavior of objects I don't have a

2135
01:40:12,400 --> 01:40:09,680
question here from Wade Ridsdale who's

2136
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:12,410
one of our our frequent posters at forum

2137
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:15,530
dr. Peric ascom in fact he's almost

2138
01:40:22,660 --> 01:40:20,570
reached the 3,000 post Mart and he's got

2139
01:40:24,580 --> 01:40:22,670
an interesting question here for you it

2140
01:40:27,370 --> 01:40:24,590
says I don't hear a lot about the

2141
01:40:31,330 --> 01:40:27,380
falling leaf behavior that's been

2142
01:40:33,850 --> 01:40:31,340
attributed to the UFO UAP sightings a

2143
01:40:35,950 --> 01:40:33,860
few decades back he doesn't see them in

2144
01:40:39,580 --> 01:40:35,960
today's reports do you have any

2145
01:40:42,130 --> 01:40:39,590
descriptions in in your database of from

2146
01:40:44,260 --> 01:40:42,140
way back in the historic record of these

2147
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:44,270
objects exhibiting this falling leaf

2148
01:40:50,380 --> 01:40:46,850
type behavior as they did if they're

2149
01:40:52,690 --> 01:40:50,390
descending well we we have seen some

2150
01:40:54,310 --> 01:40:52,700
cases like that there was one posted

2151
01:40:54,610 --> 01:40:54,320
recently I don't I don't have it right

2152
01:40:59,950 --> 01:40:54,620
now

2153
01:41:04,030 --> 01:40:59,960
international research group which what

2154
01:41:06,100 --> 01:41:04,040
we do we we exchange material on on

2155
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:06,110
these subjects well practically

2156
01:41:10,990 --> 01:41:07,730
practically every day there's something

2157
01:41:13,950 --> 01:41:11,000
going through the system and I know that

2158
01:41:18,760 --> 01:41:13,960
at some point we have seen cases

2159
01:41:21,820 --> 01:41:18,770
mentioning this is exact movement the

2160
01:41:23,470 --> 01:41:21,830
the story of Fred Birmingham I mentioned

2161
01:41:26,140 --> 01:41:23,480
before in Australia in Perak

2162
01:41:28,750 --> 01:41:26,150
matter he drew a sketch of the of the

2163
01:41:31,660 --> 01:41:28,760
object that seemed to be descending in a

2164
01:41:35,070 --> 01:41:31,670
sort of zigzag way so yeah I mean it is

2165
01:41:39,850 --> 01:41:35,080
it is possible there was also talk about

2166
01:41:43,450 --> 01:41:39,860
the the luminous thing in fátima seen in

2167
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:43,460
Fatima in 1917 and the idea that that

2168
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:46,130
might have descended or moved at least

2169
01:41:51,580 --> 01:41:49,010
in this a zigzag fashion it is something

2170
01:41:54,430 --> 01:41:51,590
that comes up from time to time but it's

2171
01:41:56,350 --> 01:41:54,440
definitely not a staple of historical

2172
01:41:59,140 --> 01:41:56,360
reports and it's not really a staple of

2173
01:42:01,450 --> 01:41:59,150
modern ones either so I don't know where

2174
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:01,460
that where that came from in 20th

2175
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:04,370
century but you know I mean if you look

2176
01:42:09,100 --> 01:42:07,280
at hundreds of thousands of UFO reports

2177
01:42:12,250 --> 01:42:09,110
over the centuries you're bound to find

2178
01:42:14,620 --> 01:42:12,260
patterns very minor ones between

2179
01:42:17,890 --> 01:42:14,630
movements of objects or colors and

2180
01:42:19,780 --> 01:42:17,900
shapes it doesn't always mean there's a

2181
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:19,790
connection there but it's always

2182
01:42:25,540 --> 01:42:22,250
interesting to you know compare that in

2183
01:42:28,660 --> 01:42:25,550
mind you mentioned your project your

2184
01:42:31,630 --> 01:42:28,670
database project that you have been

2185
01:42:35,710 --> 01:42:31,640
working on this comes from Wade Ridsdale

2186
01:42:37,390 --> 01:42:35,720
again he's wondering about that he says

2187
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:37,400
at the risk of sounding like a pisser

2188
01:42:42,610 --> 01:42:40,489
despite the names involved you valet

2189
01:42:45,250 --> 01:42:42,620
Jerome Clark Albert was always and

2190
01:42:47,050 --> 01:42:45,260
others he was a bit disappointed in it

2191
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:47,060
he thought that within the group there

2192
01:42:50,740 --> 01:42:48,890
would be more discussion on the events

2193
01:42:53,470 --> 01:42:50,750
and the effects and the aftermath of

2194
01:42:55,990 --> 01:42:53,480
recoded events but it seems to be just

2195
01:42:59,080 --> 01:42:56,000
hard facts dates general observations

2196
01:43:01,060 --> 01:42:59,090
and sources that type of thing and he's

2197
01:43:03,220 --> 01:43:01,070
more in about the experience and given

2198
01:43:05,890 --> 01:43:03,230
the name Magana he felt this was a

2199
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:05,900
natural assumption on his part he said

2200
01:43:10,300 --> 01:43:08,000
except for two brief periods he couldn't

2201
01:43:12,100 --> 01:43:10,310
access this vast treasure trove of

2202
01:43:14,110 --> 01:43:12,110
information that is already stored

2203
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:14,120
although being on the mailing list I

2204
01:43:18,700 --> 01:43:16,010
would get newer reports as they came in

2205
01:43:23,290 --> 01:43:18,710
so he's wondering what is the status of

2206
01:43:25,870 --> 01:43:23,300
your you know your Magana group and is

2207
01:43:28,540 --> 01:43:25,880
there at some point in the future it

2208
01:43:31,060 --> 01:43:28,550
will that be made accessible in terms of

2209
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:31,070
for researchers are looking back into

2210
01:43:36,660 --> 01:43:34,130
the into the record well I founded this

2211
01:43:39,930 --> 01:43:36,670
with a colleague

2212
01:43:42,990 --> 01:43:39,940
brach in April 2003

2213
01:43:45,660 --> 01:43:43,000
it's called mangonia exchange as called

2214
01:43:49,650 --> 01:43:45,670
Magana exchange for a good reason

2215
01:43:52,770 --> 01:43:49,660
and firstly meconium of course is the

2216
01:43:56,370 --> 01:43:52,780
word associated with Jack's fellows book

2217
01:43:59,640 --> 01:43:56,380
passport mangonia but also with folklore

2218
01:44:02,130 --> 01:43:59,650
and historical UFO sightings in general

2219
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:02,140
but it's also called exchange for very

2220
01:44:05,550 --> 01:44:02,770
good reason

2221
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:05,560
and it's because before then it was very

2222
01:44:13,710 --> 01:44:09,970
very difficult to coax researchers into

2223
01:44:15,900 --> 01:44:13,720
sharing what they had at home tucked

2224
01:44:19,190 --> 01:44:15,910
away in files and drawers and under the

2225
01:44:23,270 --> 01:44:19,200
bed and and so on on their hard drives

2226
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:23,280
because well with these days were much

2227
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:26,050
we're much more used to sending things

2228
01:44:29,460 --> 01:44:28,090
off they're scanning a document or even

2229
01:44:32,700 --> 01:44:29,470
taking a picture with your phone and

2230
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:32,710
sending it to someone but 11 years ago

2231
01:44:38,070 --> 01:44:34,930
that really wasn't the case

2232
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:38,080
there were there were points of other

2233
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:41,290
people who who would collect information

2234
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:43,600
and if you wrote to them they might send

2235
01:44:50,030 --> 01:44:47,050
you something but there wasn't any any

2236
01:44:53,850 --> 01:44:50,040
system in which people were actively

2237
01:44:56,340 --> 01:44:53,860
sharing what they already had and in

2238
01:44:59,850 --> 01:44:56,350
exchange for sharing what they had they

2239
01:45:02,330 --> 01:44:59,860
would receive what others had it's in in

2240
01:45:04,860 --> 01:45:02,340
a sense it's like a forerunner of

2241
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:04,870
crowdsourcing or something like that

2242
01:45:09,630 --> 01:45:07,210
it's in this day and age Chris Sawbuck

2243
01:45:11,070 --> 01:45:09,640
you can get a patent on that okay let's

2244
01:45:14,100 --> 01:45:11,080
do our break right now we'll have more

2245
01:45:17,100 --> 01:45:14,110
to discuss about Magana exchange and

2246
01:45:26,100 --> 01:45:17,110
more with Jean and crispy you're in the

2247
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:29,799
we are the premier independent talk

2248
01:45:37,779 --> 01:45:33,199
radio network the genesis communications

2249
01:45:40,209 --> 01:45:37,789
network G C n imagine looking in the

2250
01:45:41,919 --> 01:45:40,219
mirror and to your surprise you look 10

2251
01:45:44,109 --> 01:45:41,929
years younger how would it make you feel

2252
01:45:46,540 --> 01:45:44,119
looking younger can be your reality

2253
01:45:48,850 --> 01:45:46,550
without breakthrough anti-aging formula

2254
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that's clinically proven to vividly and

2255
01:45:54,969 --> 01:45:51,229
dramatically improve wrinkles lines and

2256
01:45:58,660 --> 01:45:54,979
skin tone call one eight four four five

2257
01:46:01,509 --> 01:45:58,670
hundred zero eight one five that's one

2258
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:01,519
eight four four five hundred zero eight

2259
01:46:07,299 --> 01:46:04,610
one five or visit imagine looking

2260
01:46:08,859 --> 01:46:07,309
younger calm hi this is Ted Anderson

2261
01:46:10,719 --> 01:46:08,869
have you ever wondered why banks

2262
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stockbrokers investment advisors won't

2263
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talk about gold IRAs they've been

2264
01:46:16,060 --> 01:46:14,300
available since nineteen eighty six yet

2265
01:46:17,620 --> 01:46:16,070
the financial industry won't recognize

2266
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the value of gold for your retirement

2267
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goal has outperformed paper investments

2268
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yet no word about IRAs

2269
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if you would like to have gold for your

2270
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retirement call 866 two two three seven

2271
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2272
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inflation and low returns call 866 two

2273
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to thirty seven secure your future and

2274
01:47:14,290 --> 01:47:12,019
call 1-866-376-8255 organic ingredients

2275
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2276
01:47:19,239 --> 01:47:16,939
wheat and gluten free pro em1 is the key

2277
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to your digestive health Porter pro am

2278
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:21,590
one daily probiotic lens at Tarragona

2279
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calm spelled ter AGA and IX calm or call

2280
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toll-free 866 three six nine three six

2281
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seven eight that's eight six six three

2282
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six nine three six seven eight also

2283
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available through Amazon

2284
01:47:44,189 --> 01:47:36,360
pro-am one from tarragon ik's life's

2285
01:47:52,229 --> 01:47:47,890
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2286
01:48:00,490 --> 01:47:52,239
standard of paranormal radio and now

2287
01:48:02,979 --> 01:48:00,500
here's Jane Steinberg of course today

2288
01:48:05,649 --> 01:48:02,989
you've got kick-started we got GoFundMe

2289
01:48:08,410 --> 01:48:05,659
when it comes to crowdsourcing but Chris

2290
01:48:11,140 --> 01:48:08,420
avec the Magana exchange is this a place

2291
01:48:13,030 --> 01:48:11,150
the public can visit to share

2292
01:48:14,770 --> 01:48:13,040
information or is it strictly a bunch of

2293
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:14,780
you people working together privately

2294
01:48:21,970 --> 01:48:17,090
well to get the thing started it was

2295
01:48:24,339 --> 01:48:21,980
just mainly me and rod Brock and we were

2296
01:48:28,209 --> 01:48:24,349
looking through what then was a novelty

2297
01:48:30,370 --> 01:48:28,219
which was utilized newspaper collections

2298
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:30,380
completely searchable that would appear

2299
01:48:35,379 --> 01:48:33,290
on the screen in PDF format and so on

2300
01:48:37,689 --> 01:48:35,389
and you could do incredible searches

2301
01:48:40,419 --> 01:48:37,699
they might have there are no 60,000

2302
01:48:42,669 --> 01:48:40,429
newspapers in their database from all

2303
01:48:44,859 --> 01:48:42,679
kinds of periods in time and you could

2304
01:48:46,959 --> 01:48:44,869
put in there like strange star or

2305
01:48:49,450 --> 01:48:46,969
singular phenomenon and you'd come up

2306
01:48:52,209 --> 01:48:49,460
with amazing UFO cases that no one had

2307
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:52,219
seen in over a hundred years so we we

2308
01:48:57,700 --> 01:48:53,570
started with this when we share it

2309
01:49:00,370 --> 01:48:57,710
between so between ourselves in in yahoo

2310
01:49:03,100 --> 01:49:00,380
accounts at the time we had I don't know

2311
01:49:05,589 --> 01:49:03,110
20 30 yahoo accounts and they were just

2312
01:49:06,939 --> 01:49:05,599
full to the brim with with these things

2313
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:06,949
that were finding good we had no other

2314
01:49:11,109 --> 01:49:08,690
way to store things as was practically

2315
01:49:13,689 --> 01:49:11,119
before pen drives existed too it was I

2316
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:13,699
mean it was a very very different period

2317
01:49:19,839 --> 01:49:17,449
and I I began to to suspect that if we

2318
01:49:22,060 --> 01:49:19,849
could get others to to join us we could

2319
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:22,070
get through a lot more information a lot

2320
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:25,730
faster I didn't expect that all of the

2321
01:49:30,339 --> 01:49:27,650
libraries in the world would start

2322
01:49:32,140 --> 01:49:30,349
digitalizing everything they have what

2323
01:49:33,729 --> 01:49:32,150
that's meant is that we have material

2324
01:49:37,030 --> 01:49:33,739
there for the rest of our lives and in

2325
01:49:40,089 --> 01:49:37,040
fact since the year 2003 we've managed

2326
01:49:43,390 --> 01:49:40,099
to to gather I don't know how many I can

2327
01:49:45,490 --> 01:49:43,400
count posts like some sometimes a post

2328
01:49:47,919 --> 01:49:45,500
that we sand through the group will

2329
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:47,929
contain several different items and the

2330
01:49:51,850 --> 01:49:49,610
group itself has been through at least

2331
01:49:54,700 --> 01:49:51,860
three different incarnations so I'd say

2332
01:49:56,890 --> 01:49:54,710
about 40,000 items have been shared

2333
01:49:59,530 --> 01:49:56,900
since the 2003

2334
01:50:01,660 --> 01:49:59,540
which is quite a lot but to get this

2335
01:50:03,550 --> 01:50:01,670
started I had to be a little bit strict

2336
01:50:05,169 --> 01:50:03,560
with the way this had to be because is

2337
01:50:07,209 --> 01:50:05,179
this the whole concept didn't exist

2338
01:50:09,939 --> 01:50:07,219
before and it was strictly if you want

2339
01:50:12,189 --> 01:50:09,949
to participate you have to you have to

2340
01:50:14,950 --> 01:50:12,199
contribute completely free of charge it

2341
01:50:17,500 --> 01:50:14,960
was open to anyone at all it still is

2342
01:50:19,209 --> 01:50:17,510
and absolutely anyone someone's mother

2343
01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:19,219
could join there's absolutely no problem

2344
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:19,610
at all

2345
01:50:24,010 --> 01:50:22,130
but to participate to receive you had to

2346
01:50:25,419 --> 01:50:24,020
contribute and that and that was a

2347
01:50:27,070 --> 01:50:25,429
philosophy that I had at the beginning

2348
01:50:28,990 --> 01:50:27,080
and it worked very well particularly

2349
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:29,000
when we started getting members in in

2350
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:31,520
Russia and and countries like that where

2351
01:50:38,500 --> 01:50:35,810
people were going to obscure libraries

2352
01:50:40,660 --> 01:50:38,510
and translating documents for us from

2353
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:40,670
Russian for example or French Italian

2354
01:50:44,890 --> 01:50:42,890
and so on and sharing those documents

2355
01:50:46,780 --> 01:50:44,900
with the rest of the group because then

2356
01:50:48,939 --> 01:50:46,790
I consider I mean I'm a translator

2357
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:48,949
myself that's that's my main job in

2358
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:52,489
Spain I consider that that in a sense is

2359
01:50:56,290 --> 01:50:54,290
a kind of intellectual property once

2360
01:50:58,180 --> 01:50:56,300
you've translated something I didn't

2361
01:51:00,459 --> 01:50:58,190
what I didn't want to happen was that

2362
01:51:03,010 --> 01:51:00,469
someone would just go in there take

2363
01:51:04,990 --> 01:51:03,020
everything raid all of our thousands of

2364
01:51:07,330 --> 01:51:05,000
items and then turn it into books on

2365
01:51:09,370 --> 01:51:07,340
Amazon and because that has happened in

2366
01:51:12,340 --> 01:51:09,380
that in fact that happened to Albert

2367
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:12,350
Rosales once and someone published

2368
01:51:17,020 --> 01:51:15,050
everything he had as a book and so of

2369
01:51:19,209 --> 01:51:17,030
course he complained and I complained

2370
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:19,219
and so on then it was taken down so to

2371
01:51:23,169 --> 01:51:21,290
stop that from happening so researchers

2372
01:51:25,450 --> 01:51:23,179
are often quite jealous possessive

2373
01:51:27,669 --> 01:51:25,460
people with their material they they

2374
01:51:29,770 --> 01:51:27,679
took a very long time to get it and you

2375
01:51:31,780 --> 01:51:29,780
know it's like dull dust in a sense like

2376
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:31,790
the jewels of their collection but they

2377
01:51:36,910 --> 01:51:34,850
didn't want to share everything they had

2378
01:51:38,919 --> 01:51:36,920
immediately with but with the world I

2379
01:51:41,950 --> 01:51:38,929
mean that is changing but at the

2380
01:51:44,770 --> 01:51:41,960
beginning to gain people's trust in the

2381
01:51:47,939 --> 01:51:44,780
sand it was necessary to make a group

2382
01:51:50,890 --> 01:51:47,949
which was exclusive in the sense that

2383
01:51:53,260 --> 01:51:50,900
you gave as much as you received that

2384
01:51:55,930 --> 01:51:53,270
was the main philosophy that what you

2385
01:51:58,090 --> 01:51:55,940
what you post it wasn't all going to be

2386
01:52:00,160 --> 01:51:58,100
available there to someone to raid the

2387
01:52:02,740 --> 01:52:00,170
way that it's worked is that if any new

2388
01:52:04,540 --> 01:52:02,750
people want to join they have access to

2389
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:04,550
absolutely everything was posted from

2390
01:52:10,060 --> 01:52:06,560
the day that they join and if they want

2391
01:52:10,580 --> 01:52:10,070
to get any earlier posts they can go

2392
01:52:14,930 --> 01:52:10,590
through

2393
01:52:16,760 --> 01:52:14,940
the the the Yahoo archive which lists

2394
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:16,770
everything that's ever been posted live

2395
01:52:21,590 --> 01:52:20,250
since from the year 2004 and they see

2396
01:52:23,210 --> 01:52:21,600
the title of everything if they want

2397
01:52:24,830 --> 01:52:23,220
something they can ask me or ask someone

2398
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:24,840
else and it can be sent to them that's

2399
01:52:28,610 --> 01:52:26,970
we're not that exclusive we're not we're

2400
01:52:30,020 --> 01:52:28,620
not sort of guarding everything under

2401
01:52:32,540 --> 01:52:30,030
lock and key but the only thing that

2402
01:52:35,840 --> 01:52:32,550
we're doing is to create a system that

2403
01:52:39,890 --> 01:52:35,850
gives people a motive to to share what

2404
01:52:41,450 --> 01:52:39,900
they have in order to receive so I don't

2405
01:52:43,610 --> 01:52:41,460
know who it was who wrote that

2406
01:52:45,770 --> 01:52:43,620
yeah he's welcome to join again but I'll

2407
01:52:47,510 --> 01:52:45,780
be happily knocking him off again if

2408
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:47,520
from the list if he doesn't contribute

2409
01:52:51,950 --> 01:52:49,890
anything over a period of six months or

2410
01:52:54,410 --> 01:52:51,960
eight months or whatever it is as far as

2411
01:52:57,230 --> 01:52:54,420
discussion is concerned the Internet is

2412
01:52:59,630 --> 01:52:57,240
so full of discussion and forums and

2413
01:53:02,300 --> 01:52:59,640
everything and there are TV programs and

2414
01:53:05,480 --> 01:53:02,310
radio programs and everything possible

2415
01:53:08,300 --> 01:53:05,490
debates and conferences that I'm more

2416
01:53:11,540 --> 01:53:08,310
interested in in providing a source of

2417
01:53:14,290 --> 01:53:11,550
the original information untouched scans

2418
01:53:17,180 --> 01:53:14,300
of these ancient documents as possible

2419
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:17,190
and just put that out there for people

2420
01:53:20,900 --> 01:53:19,410
to do their own independent projects and

2421
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:20,910
that's exactly what's happened and it's

2422
01:53:25,910 --> 01:53:23,850
been very successful mr. O'Brien well we

2423
01:53:27,470 --> 01:53:25,920
have as gene mentioned we have a bunch

2424
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:27,480
of questions that have been posted by

2425
01:53:32,870 --> 01:53:30,330
our posters at forum dr. Peric ascom

2426
01:53:35,180 --> 01:53:32,880
where you can post questions for our

2427
01:53:37,550 --> 01:53:35,190
guests and here's another question from

2428
01:53:39,620 --> 01:53:37,560
one of our German listeners Paul - worst

2429
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:39,630
who's one of our our very frequent

2430
01:53:44,570 --> 01:53:41,970
posters at forum dr. Peric ask.com

2431
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:44,580
the one he says the accountant wonders

2432
01:53:48,890 --> 01:53:46,410
in the sky that he personally found the

2433
01:53:51,770 --> 01:53:48,900
most fascinating was that of Reverend

2434
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:51,780
Abraham Cummings who apparently quite

2435
01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:53,610
skeptically investigated some alleged

2436
01:53:59,600 --> 01:53:56,850
sightings of an apparition in 1802 and

2437
01:54:02,390 --> 01:53:59,610
ended up seeing it himself a rather

2438
01:54:04,490 --> 01:54:02,400
small football sized whitish light that

2439
01:54:06,920 --> 01:54:04,500
morphed and grew into the apparition of

2440
01:54:08,750 --> 01:54:06,930
a woman but could you give us some

2441
01:54:11,290 --> 01:54:08,760
information on that do you think this

2442
01:54:14,210 --> 01:54:11,300
was a genuine incredible sighting and

2443
01:54:17,180 --> 01:54:14,220
have you done any further investigations

2444
01:54:21,140 --> 01:54:17,190
about it yeah this was a case from 1806

2445
01:54:22,970 --> 01:54:21,150
the Reverend Abraham Cummings who set

2446
01:54:26,060 --> 01:54:22,980
out to investigate the apparition of

2447
01:54:28,550 --> 01:54:26,070
ghost and he was a serious scholar you

2448
01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:28,560
know Master of Arts degree from Brown

2449
01:54:33,260 --> 01:54:30,930
University and he imagined that the

2450
01:54:36,050 --> 01:54:33,270
tails were going to be fraudulent from

2451
01:54:37,340 --> 01:54:36,060
the very beginning so from that point of

2452
01:54:39,530 --> 01:54:37,350
view it's interesting because we're

2453
01:54:42,050 --> 01:54:39,540
talking about investigator who from the

2454
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:42,060
very first moment does not expect what

2455
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:45,210
he's going to find and then what he

2456
01:54:49,790 --> 01:54:47,730
wrote was that sometime in July you know

2457
01:54:51,950 --> 01:54:49,800
6:00 in the evening I was informed by

2458
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:51,960
two persons that they had just seen the

2459
01:54:56,600 --> 01:54:54,090
specter in the field about ten minutes

2460
01:54:58,850 --> 01:54:56,610
after I went out not to see a miracle

2461
01:55:02,120 --> 01:54:58,860
for I believe that they'd been mistaken

2462
01:55:04,460 --> 01:55:02,130
looking toward an eminence twelve rods

2463
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:04,470
distance from the house I saw there

2464
01:55:10,430 --> 01:55:07,530
there as I supposed one of the white

2465
01:55:11,900 --> 01:55:10,440
rocks because even the people thought

2466
01:55:14,180 --> 01:55:11,910
that they were rocks or he thought there

2467
01:55:16,070 --> 01:55:14,190
might be rocks that people was he wrote

2468
01:55:17,870 --> 01:55:16,080
this confirmed my opinion of their of

2469
01:55:19,930 --> 01:55:17,880
their Specter and I paid no attention to

2470
01:55:21,530 --> 01:55:19,940
it three minutes afterward I

2471
01:55:23,420 --> 01:55:21,540
accidentally looked in the same

2472
01:55:26,479 --> 01:55:23,430
direction and the white rock was in the

2473
01:55:28,729 --> 01:55:26,489
air its form a complete globe with a

2474
01:55:31,430 --> 01:55:28,739
tincture of red and it's diameter about

2475
01:55:34,250 --> 01:55:31,440
two feet fully satisfied that this was

2476
01:55:37,700 --> 01:55:34,260
nothing ordinary I went towards it for

2477
01:55:40,610 --> 01:55:37,710
more accurate examination while my I was

2478
01:55:43,010 --> 01:55:40,620
constantly upon it I went on on four or

2479
01:55:45,290 --> 01:55:43,020
five steps when it came to me from the

2480
01:55:47,510 --> 01:55:45,300
distance of eleven rods as quickly as

2481
01:55:50,390 --> 01:55:47,520
lightning and instantly assumed a

2482
01:55:52,550 --> 01:55:50,400
personal form with a female dress but

2483
01:55:55,700 --> 01:55:52,560
did not appear taller than a girl seven

2484
01:55:57,860 --> 01:55:55,710
years old what I looked upon her I said

2485
01:55:59,870 --> 01:55:57,870
in my mind you are not tall enough for

2486
01:56:02,300 --> 01:55:59,880
the woman who has so frequently appeared

2487
01:56:06,050 --> 01:56:02,310
among us and he was referring to the the

2488
01:56:08,180 --> 01:56:06,060
ghost people were seeing immediately she

2489
01:56:10,280 --> 01:56:08,190
grew up as large and tall as I

2490
01:56:12,530 --> 01:56:10,290
considered that woman to be now she

2491
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:12,540
appeared glorious on her head was a

2492
01:56:17,930 --> 01:56:14,610
representation of the Sun diffusing the

2493
01:56:20,240 --> 01:56:17,940
luminous rectilinear rays every way to

2494
01:56:22,930 --> 01:56:20,250
Lee around through the Rays I saw the

2495
01:56:25,580 --> 01:56:22,940
personal form and the woman's dress and

2496
01:56:28,610 --> 01:56:25,590
he said that the entity had been

2497
01:56:33,020 --> 01:56:28,620
encountered on on dozens of occasions

2498
01:56:35,750 --> 01:56:33,030
and he included about 30 affidavits from

2499
01:56:36,830 --> 01:56:35,760
from witnesses to prove it and in all

2500
01:56:38,930 --> 01:56:36,840
the cases first

2501
01:56:41,780 --> 01:56:38,940
there was a small luminous cloud and

2502
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:41,790
then he grew until it took on the shape

2503
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:44,210
of a woman and then it would disappear

2504
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:48,090
in about the same way so this is

2505
01:56:52,550 --> 01:56:49,770
interesting because we're talking about

2506
01:56:55,550 --> 01:56:52,560
objects that float up into the sky here

2507
01:56:57,379 --> 01:56:55,560
we have some kind of entity humanoid

2508
01:56:59,419 --> 01:56:57,389
entity I also find it interesting

2509
01:57:01,669 --> 01:56:59,429
because there's a connection here

2510
01:57:03,740 --> 01:57:01,679
between this and apparitions of the

2511
01:57:06,919 --> 01:57:03,750
Virgin and of course this was a reverend

2512
01:57:09,649 --> 01:57:06,929
writing too so whatever he saw he might

2513
01:57:12,410 --> 01:57:09,659
have decided to describe it in his own

2514
01:57:13,959 --> 01:57:12,420
way afterwards but yeah it's it's

2515
01:57:16,879 --> 01:57:13,969
interesting because we have 30

2516
01:57:19,790 --> 01:57:16,889
affidavits affidavit serve of people who

2517
01:57:23,870 --> 01:57:19,800
who believe they they saw this thing so

2518
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:23,880
among cases with a good number of

2519
01:57:27,859 --> 01:57:25,770
witnesses and them yeah it's it's a good

2520
01:57:35,229 --> 01:57:27,869
one more to come with Kris our Beckwith

2521
01:57:41,839 --> 01:57:38,359
neighbors are you tired of dealing with

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a slow web hosting provider well check

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gene when you check out gold isn't for

2540
01:58:39,140 --> 01:58:38,400
you today Anderson president of Midas

2541
01:58:40,790 --> 01:58:39,150
Resources

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one of the world's premier gold and

2543
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precious metal investing firms I get it

2544
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you wouldn't buy gold if you believed

2545
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that the government is doing a great job

2546
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that the Fed will stop handing out

2547
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trillions of dollars like

2548
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that Social Security would be there for

2549
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you that's not what's happening

2550
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you might even pass on gold if the

2551
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stimulus package wouldn't fuel inflation

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or that the dollar wouldn't lose value

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or that your retirement would be secure

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if all looks rosy to you then now is not

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2556
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while gold has risen three hundred

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percent right now savvy investors are

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adding gold to their portfolios you

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should to find out what they know call

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will do very well three eight hundred

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seventy that's eight hundred six eight

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six two two three seven the genesis

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02:01:29,990 --> 02:01:27,810
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02:01:32,150 --> 02:01:30,000
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02:01:39,230 --> 02:01:32,160
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02:01:41,210 --> 02:01:39,240
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2622
02:01:43,220 --> 02:01:41,220
like to hear from you if you have a

2623
02:01:46,880 --> 02:01:43,230
comment or question about the para cast

2624
02:01:50,690 --> 02:01:46,890
sent it to news at the para cast calm

2625
02:01:52,610 --> 02:01:50,700
that's news at the para cast calm and

2626
02:01:55,820 --> 02:01:52,620
don't forget to visit our famous para

2627
02:01:59,870 --> 02:01:55,830
cast community forums at forum dot the

2628
02:02:02,090 --> 02:01:59,880
para cast comm Chris all Beck you want

2629
02:02:04,280 --> 02:02:02,100
to follow up and continue on the answer

2630
02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:04,290
to the last question yeah I was saying

2631
02:02:09,590 --> 02:02:07,770
that it's very interesting and in there

2632
02:02:11,750 --> 02:02:09,600
it's a religious apparition in a sense

2633
02:02:15,880 --> 02:02:11,760
at least it would be for a reverend who

2634
02:02:18,830 --> 02:02:15,890
sees a kind of woman very easily

2635
02:02:23,090 --> 02:02:18,840
interpreted as as a virgin so here we

2636
02:02:26,210 --> 02:02:23,100
have a kind of halfway enigma something

2637
02:02:28,580 --> 02:02:26,220
between a religious religious experience

2638
02:02:33,860 --> 02:02:28,590
and a UFO one which is something we find

2639
02:02:36,140 --> 02:02:33,870
a great deal in in in in ufology crispy

2640
02:02:39,110 --> 02:02:36,150
well we have a question here from burnt

2641
02:02:41,120 --> 02:02:39,120
state he's one of our longtime posters

2642
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:41,130
at forum dr. Peric ask.com

2643
02:02:47,090 --> 02:02:44,330
where you can ask our guests questions

2644
02:02:49,160 --> 02:02:47,100
by going to our forums on the question

2645
02:02:51,380 --> 02:02:49,170
thread and burn state has a very

2646
02:02:54,200 --> 02:02:51,390
interesting question here and I'm I'm

2647
02:02:56,690 --> 02:02:54,210
very intrigued by by what your answer

2648
02:02:59,450 --> 02:02:56,700
will be have you discovered any specific

2649
02:03:01,550 --> 02:02:59,460
symbols inscriptions or other art forms

2650
02:03:04,940 --> 02:03:01,560
of communication and representations

2651
02:03:05,839 --> 02:03:04,950
seen on crafts uniforms or elsewhere

2652
02:03:08,119 --> 02:03:05,849
that stand out

2653
02:03:10,009 --> 02:03:08,129
who is being truly significant now of

2654
02:03:12,799 --> 02:03:10,019
course we have in the modern era the mo

2655
02:03:16,040 --> 02:03:12,809
case the Lonnie Zamora case where

2656
02:03:18,469 --> 02:03:16,050
symbols were seen on the craft do we see

2657
02:03:22,250 --> 02:03:18,479
this type of detail in some of the more

2658
02:03:25,099 --> 02:03:22,260
ancient historical cases yeah there are

2659
02:03:27,830 --> 02:03:25,109
generally speaking however they didn't

2660
02:03:30,080 --> 02:03:27,840
describe the the hieroglyphics or the

2661
02:03:33,049 --> 02:03:30,090
characters they just said there were

2662
02:03:34,189 --> 02:03:33,059
hieroglyphics which is quite normal in a

2663
02:03:37,939 --> 02:03:34,199
sense because we're talking about

2664
02:03:40,489 --> 02:03:37,949
generally people who hadn't studied and

2665
02:03:43,339 --> 02:03:40,499
they were often illiterate I mean

2666
02:03:45,259 --> 02:03:43,349
looking back 200 300 years and they

2667
02:03:47,689 --> 02:03:45,269
would have said it carried some kind of

2668
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:47,699
weird writing but they didn't describe

2669
02:03:54,409 --> 02:03:50,010
those characters on the other hand I am

2670
02:03:58,819 --> 02:03:54,419
writing I'm finished now a book which is

2671
02:04:02,419 --> 02:03:58,829
called alien artifact and describes

2672
02:04:06,290 --> 02:04:02,429
stories of objects that have fallen from

2673
02:04:08,750 --> 02:04:06,300
the sky from around the 1850s onward

2674
02:04:11,989 --> 02:04:08,760
well mating for tis we'll say many of

2675
02:04:14,479 --> 02:04:11,999
which did supposedly carry hieroglyphics

2676
02:04:17,899 --> 02:04:14,489
on them and this is a very old theme you

2677
02:04:20,929 --> 02:04:17,909
can be back at ancient or made medieval

2678
02:04:24,049 --> 02:04:20,939
Chinese writings of the objects that

2679
02:04:26,719 --> 02:04:24,059
come from the sky full of characters and

2680
02:04:28,399 --> 02:04:26,729
hieroglyphics that only specialists

2681
02:04:30,469 --> 02:04:28,409
could understand or nobody could

2682
02:04:32,739 --> 02:04:30,479
understand and they often call it the

2683
02:04:36,279 --> 02:04:32,749
sky language the space language

2684
02:04:38,719 --> 02:04:36,289
unfortunately the there's there's no

2685
02:04:40,580 --> 02:04:38,729
there's no way to know exactly what

2686
02:04:43,159 --> 02:04:40,590
these characters look like because they

2687
02:04:45,589 --> 02:04:43,169
were practically never described but of

2688
02:04:48,049 --> 02:04:45,599
a really interesting point and that is

2689
02:04:51,439 --> 02:04:48,059
China the largest UFO group in the world

2690
02:04:53,869 --> 02:04:51,449
is over a million members located in

2691
02:04:57,109 --> 02:04:53,879
China and here in the West we don't

2692
02:04:59,689 --> 02:04:57,119
really see a lot of the historical

2693
02:05:02,839 --> 02:04:59,699
reports in books and in in the

2694
02:05:04,909 --> 02:05:02,849
literature about Asian cases what are

2695
02:05:07,790 --> 02:05:04,919
some of the more compelling historical

2696
02:05:10,939 --> 02:05:07,800
cases from China Japan and from from the

2697
02:05:13,279 --> 02:05:10,949
Far East um well it's very difficult to

2698
02:05:15,529 --> 02:05:13,289
answer that question because we don't

2699
02:05:17,989 --> 02:05:15,539
get to see many either we don't have any

2700
02:05:19,370 --> 02:05:17,999
members of the group in China or Japan

2701
02:05:21,530 --> 02:05:19,380
we've had them

2702
02:05:23,149 --> 02:05:21,540
but they they post like one or two

2703
02:05:25,939 --> 02:05:23,159
things and disappear I don't know

2704
02:05:28,669 --> 02:05:25,949
whether it's because they find the

2705
02:05:30,140 --> 02:05:28,679
subject just a fleeting interest or

2706
02:05:33,620 --> 02:05:30,150
whether it's because of the language

2707
02:05:35,570 --> 02:05:33,630
barrier I'm not sure so it's very

2708
02:05:37,490 --> 02:05:35,580
difficult to answer that question well

2709
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:37,500
what is interesting for me is that the

2710
02:05:45,700 --> 02:05:42,810
idea that the universe was populated by

2711
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:45,710
intelligent beings is equally old in

2712
02:05:53,300 --> 02:05:48,690
medieval China and Japan and so on

2713
02:05:55,850 --> 02:05:53,310
as it is in Europe because we've

2714
02:05:58,700 --> 02:05:55,860
speculated about possibility that the

2715
02:06:02,060 --> 02:05:58,710
universe is full of life since the

2716
02:06:04,100 --> 02:06:02,070
ancient Greeks it's been a important

2717
02:06:05,660 --> 02:06:04,110
theory discussed by philosophers and

2718
02:06:09,290 --> 02:06:05,670
scholars over the centuries this is

2719
02:06:11,870 --> 02:06:09,300
nothing new at all so there's there is

2720
02:06:13,850 --> 02:06:11,880
room there for speculation of this kind

2721
02:06:17,510 --> 02:06:13,860
over the centuries but we just haven't

2722
02:06:20,570 --> 02:06:17,520
received enough material from from

2723
02:06:22,160 --> 02:06:20,580
people in Asia it's it's something that

2724
02:06:25,459 --> 02:06:22,170
I really would like to see there is

2725
02:06:28,550 --> 02:06:25,469
science fiction in in Asia even about

2726
02:06:31,100 --> 02:06:28,560
invasions with people on the moon from

2727
02:06:33,379 --> 02:06:31,110
the moon and so on so I mean this is it

2728
02:06:35,689 --> 02:06:33,389
is an idea which does go back to at

2729
02:06:40,250 --> 02:06:35,699
least the 14th century and in Asian

2730
02:06:44,510 --> 02:06:40,260
books and I started studying Chinese a

2731
02:06:48,830 --> 02:06:44,520
few years ago and hopefully in about 150

2732
02:06:51,200 --> 02:06:48,840
years so you know to sort of pick up

2733
02:06:53,300 --> 02:06:51,210
these old medieval manuscripts and have

2734
02:06:55,820 --> 02:06:53,310
a look for myself well hopefully Google

2735
02:06:58,970 --> 02:06:55,830
of will have advanced you know far

2736
02:07:01,850 --> 02:06:58,980
enough by then to have made translation

2737
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:01,860
automatic translation quite easy which

2738
02:07:06,140 --> 02:07:03,330
would probably mean that I'd lose my job

2739
02:07:09,100 --> 02:07:06,150
but still it's what I'm looking for I

2740
02:07:12,970 --> 02:07:09,110
mean we need this kind of information

2741
02:07:15,860 --> 02:07:12,980
you're funny in a very dry kind of way

2742
02:07:19,629 --> 02:07:15,870
yeah the translation function on Google

2743
02:07:23,390 --> 02:07:19,639
is sometimes worth a few belly laughs at

2744
02:07:26,090 --> 02:07:23,400
how certain things were translated well

2745
02:07:28,640 --> 02:07:26,100
here's a question from flatwoods who's

2746
02:07:31,790 --> 02:07:28,650
been a longtime poster at forum dr.

2747
02:07:32,170 --> 02:07:31,800
Peric ascom but he very rarely comes out

2748
02:07:34,060 --> 02:07:32,180
of the

2749
02:07:36,670 --> 02:07:34,070
work to ask questions of our guest and

2750
02:07:38,800 --> 02:07:36,680
he did for you and he's wondering have

2751
02:07:41,470 --> 02:07:38,810
there been any sightings of UFOs or

2752
02:07:43,420 --> 02:07:41,480
their occupants which correlate to

2753
02:07:47,860 --> 02:07:43,430
historical outbreaks of famine or

2754
02:07:50,010 --> 02:07:47,870
disease good question well there isn't a

2755
02:07:53,770 --> 02:07:50,020
sense I mean there was this book written

2756
02:07:55,150 --> 02:07:53,780
some years ago called gods of Eden by a

2757
02:07:57,040 --> 02:07:55,160
guy called William Bramley who was a

2758
02:08:02,740 --> 02:07:57,050
pseudonym no one knows exactly who he

2759
02:08:05,230 --> 02:08:02,750
was and he correlated sightings of UFOs

2760
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:05,240
with the plague and things like that

2761
02:08:10,840 --> 02:08:07,610
because it is true that people at some

2762
02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:10,850
point thought that comets in particular

2763
02:08:16,210 --> 02:08:12,770
brought the plague with them I mean the

2764
02:08:18,940 --> 02:08:16,220
whole idea of viruses from space and

2765
02:08:22,510 --> 02:08:18,950
panspermia - which isn't necessarily a

2766
02:08:24,580 --> 02:08:22,520
virus it's just a biological this is

2767
02:08:26,950 --> 02:08:24,590
extremely old - we can find evidence of

2768
02:08:29,770 --> 02:08:26,960
this in very very old books and writings

2769
02:08:33,040 --> 02:08:29,780
so I mean yeah there is there is

2770
02:08:36,370 --> 02:08:33,050
indication that people during outbreaks

2771
02:08:38,950 --> 02:08:36,380
of plague would look deliberately for

2772
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:38,960
some kind of cause which would include

2773
02:08:43,720 --> 02:08:41,930
lights in the sky or strange objects I

2774
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:43,730
think that it's the same thing has

2775
02:08:49,570 --> 02:08:46,010
happened during the the airship wave

2776
02:08:52,180 --> 02:08:49,580
which was mainly just newspapers and

2777
02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:52,190
inventing stories but it didn't make

2778
02:08:56,650 --> 02:08:53,930
people go out of their houses and start

2779
02:08:58,330 --> 02:08:56,660
looking up at the sky and during that

2780
02:09:01,570 --> 02:08:58,340
period there were a lot of very

2781
02:09:02,830 --> 02:09:01,580
interesting sightings of things that

2782
02:09:05,340 --> 02:09:02,840
didn't look particularly like wooden

2783
02:09:08,170 --> 02:09:05,350
airships but they were recorded because

2784
02:09:11,530 --> 02:09:08,180
they were popular so you can imagine

2785
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:11,540
that anything seen in the sky in the sky

2786
02:09:16,440 --> 02:09:14,330
that coincided with famines but not only

2787
02:09:20,170 --> 02:09:16,450
with famine but also with warfare

2788
02:09:22,750 --> 02:09:20,180
important births deaths of monarchs and

2789
02:09:26,530 --> 02:09:22,760
so on yeah it would be recorded because

2790
02:09:32,040 --> 02:09:26,540
it coincided and we find that in many

2791
02:09:34,950 --> 02:09:32,050
old pamphlets where they describe the

2792
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:34,960
know the arrival of a of an enemy

2793
02:09:41,650 --> 02:09:38,690
soldier or troop or something army on in

2794
02:09:43,900 --> 02:09:41,660
in some territory with a comet in the

2795
02:09:46,170 --> 02:09:43,910
sky and new comment - a new star that it

2796
02:09:48,150 --> 02:09:46,180
appeared so yeah sure viruses famines

2797
02:09:50,070 --> 02:09:48,160
and so on it doesn't mean that there's a

2798
02:09:52,410 --> 02:09:50,080
there's a causation there doesn't mean

2799
02:09:54,150 --> 02:09:52,420
that there's any causation there maybe

2800
02:09:57,660 --> 02:09:54,160
it's just a coincidence but it made

2801
02:10:00,480 --> 02:09:57,670
people look up in the sky and and take

2802
02:10:02,640 --> 02:10:00,490
note let's take note of this we have

2803
02:10:06,480 --> 02:10:02,650
Chris our Beck joining us we're looking

2804
02:10:10,140 --> 02:10:06,490
at UFOs in antiquity mostly older UFO

2805
02:10:12,900 --> 02:10:10,150
cases predominantly those before the

2806
02:10:14,820 --> 02:10:12,910
late 19th century we've got a lot more

2807
02:10:17,220 --> 02:10:14,830
to come in two more segments more

2808
02:10:35,180 --> 02:10:17,230
questions from our listeners with gene

2809
02:10:39,840 --> 02:10:37,500
graphic converter is the image

2810
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2811
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could use it for slideshows you could

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02:10:59,310 --> 02:10:56,980
use it to import images from digital

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cameras or from scanners need to do some

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2850
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imagine a 70 by 100 foot church building

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for under sixty nine thousand dollars

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with the economy improving and interest

2854
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rates still at historic lows you can't

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2884
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2887
02:13:46,370 --> 02:13:44,430
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2888
02:13:47,810 --> 02:13:46,380
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2889
02:13:49,850 --> 02:13:47,820
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2890
02:13:51,680 --> 02:13:49,860
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2891
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2892
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2897
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from case to case hi I'm Sam Nussbaum

2898
02:14:11,340 --> 02:14:09,310
well points chief medical officer

2899
02:14:13,740 --> 02:14:11,350
we proudly support the March of Dimes

2900
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2907
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2908
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March of Dimes org this is Leslie Cain

2909
02:14:45,450 --> 02:14:43,420
and I'm with the Coalition for freedom

2910
02:14:49,620 --> 02:14:45,460
of information and you are listening to

2911
02:14:51,390 --> 02:14:49,630
the podcast Chris all Beck I have a

2912
02:14:53,130 --> 02:14:51,400
silly question to ask you here because

2913
02:14:55,380 --> 02:14:53,140
people say all my questions are silly

2914
02:14:57,990 --> 02:14:55,390
alright we know of course that people

2915
02:15:01,020 --> 02:14:58,000
these days sometimes fake UFO sightings

2916
02:15:03,240 --> 02:15:01,030
sometimes fake UFO photos it gets easier

2917
02:15:05,520 --> 02:15:03,250
and easier to do as we get more high

2918
02:15:07,770 --> 02:15:05,530
quality camera equipment in our

2919
02:15:10,500 --> 02:15:07,780
smartphones and the apps with which to

2920
02:15:12,660 --> 02:15:10,510
do the editing do you see evidence of

2921
02:15:16,440 --> 02:15:12,670
any of the cases you investigated from

2922
02:15:21,690 --> 02:15:16,450
all those years ago may in some case has

2923
02:15:23,820 --> 02:15:21,700
been made up yeah I mean the further you

2924
02:15:26,850 --> 02:15:23,830
go back the more ambiguous it looks

2925
02:15:29,820 --> 02:15:26,860
because you don't know because normally

2926
02:15:31,080 --> 02:15:29,830
there's no date or time known witnesses

2927
02:15:33,240 --> 02:15:31,090
so the further you go back with more

2928
02:15:35,610 --> 02:15:33,250
mythological account so it's more likely

2929
02:15:37,830 --> 02:15:35,620
but there are lots of cases from the

2930
02:15:39,930 --> 02:15:37,840
17th century 18th century and so on

2931
02:15:42,960 --> 02:15:39,940
which you can divide into different

2932
02:15:45,060 --> 02:15:42,970
categories of falseness of fakery I mean

2933
02:15:48,690 --> 02:15:45,070
firstly you have those which were

2934
02:15:51,350 --> 02:15:48,700
created to grind a sort of political or

2935
02:15:55,110 --> 02:15:51,360
religious acts people wanted to to say

2936
02:15:57,720 --> 02:15:55,120
the French are bad for example so the

2937
02:16:00,300 --> 02:15:57,730
colors of the French flag would appear

2938
02:16:02,850 --> 02:16:00,310
in the sky or there were lots of battles

2939
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:02,860
between soldiers in the sky - which is a

2940
02:16:08,780 --> 02:16:05,970
very common way of expressing and

2941
02:16:12,060 --> 02:16:08,790
dislike of a certain social or political

2942
02:16:14,420 --> 02:16:12,070
situation or battle and so on so there's

2943
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:14,430
a lot of that going on but then you have

2944
02:16:20,730 --> 02:16:18,010
a different category of phenomena which

2945
02:16:21,430 --> 02:16:20,740
I've been looking into again with Martin

2946
02:16:24,340 --> 02:16:21,440
Martin

2947
02:16:27,189 --> 02:16:24,350
off the British ufologist which they

2948
02:16:29,410 --> 02:16:27,199
sometimes took a phenomenon for example

2949
02:16:33,129 --> 02:16:29,420
we're looking at a case where there was

2950
02:16:37,660 --> 02:16:33,139
a strange black cloud of violent black

2951
02:16:40,509 --> 02:16:37,670
cloud destroying property and when we I

2952
02:16:42,480 --> 02:16:40,519
mean we were almost willing to sort of

2953
02:16:45,219 --> 02:16:42,490
say well this is definitely an anomaly

2954
02:16:47,110 --> 02:16:45,229
this is very strange is firing black

2955
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:47,120
thing destroying property that seems to

2956
02:16:52,810 --> 02:16:50,090
be intelligently controlled but when

2957
02:16:55,060 --> 02:16:52,820
when he was looking into this I mean he

2958
02:16:57,669 --> 02:16:55,070
realized one day that it wasn't it was a

2959
02:17:02,020 --> 02:16:57,679
crowd of people that have been turned

2960
02:17:05,950 --> 02:17:02,030
into a crazy black crowd a cloud almost

2961
02:17:08,169 --> 02:17:05,960
as a kind of allegory or something so

2962
02:17:10,540 --> 02:17:08,179
people reading this read about a

2963
02:17:12,640 --> 02:17:10,550
phenomenon but in fact what had happened

2964
02:17:15,310 --> 02:17:12,650
was a social phenomenon there was just a

2965
02:17:18,070 --> 02:17:15,320
it's as if you´d is called the crowds of

2966
02:17:20,440 --> 02:17:18,080
people at a music concert a one big

2967
02:17:22,929 --> 02:17:20,450
monster that was then you have other

2968
02:17:26,020 --> 02:17:22,939
cases which were of people who are

2969
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:26,030
sending off fire balloons which were

2970
02:17:30,280 --> 02:17:28,250
very popular at one point not everyone

2971
02:17:32,230 --> 02:17:30,290
knew what a fire balloon was so there be

2972
02:17:34,120 --> 02:17:32,240
saying my god we're seeing a planet

2973
02:17:35,799 --> 02:17:34,130
that's come out of its orbit or stars

2974
02:17:37,959 --> 02:17:35,809
come out of its orbit and doing strange

2975
02:17:40,750 --> 02:17:37,969
things then they were deliberate an

2976
02:17:43,299 --> 02:17:40,760
attempt to confuse people by by sending

2977
02:17:47,009 --> 02:17:43,309
up fire balloons in strange moments and

2978
02:17:50,980 --> 02:17:47,019
they also exploded or something and

2979
02:17:53,799 --> 02:17:50,990
today exactly yeah exactly I mean very

2980
02:17:55,089 --> 02:17:53,809
little has changed really if you look at

2981
02:17:58,929 --> 02:17:55,099
all these different subjects whether

2982
02:18:00,790 --> 02:17:58,939
it's playing with cattle or abductions

2983
02:18:02,500 --> 02:18:00,800
and so on I mean that in the case of

2984
02:18:05,020 --> 02:18:02,510
Jane Laird and I mentioned before she

2985
02:18:06,370 --> 02:18:05,030
talks about abductions babies everything

2986
02:18:08,830 --> 02:18:06,380
that you might find in a Whitley

2987
02:18:10,089 --> 02:18:08,840
Strieber book I mean practically

2988
02:18:11,530 --> 02:18:10,099
everything that you find today was

2989
02:18:15,360 --> 02:18:11,540
happening then the the malleus

2990
02:18:18,339 --> 02:18:15,370
Maleficarum was there was a book to help

2991
02:18:20,049 --> 02:18:18,349
find witches and interpret witch

2992
02:18:23,950 --> 02:18:20,059
behavior in the 15th century I think it

2993
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:23,960
was 1485 there this whole book is almost

2994
02:18:30,009 --> 02:18:27,290
a perfect parallel with with strange

2995
02:18:32,469 --> 02:18:30,019
things including UFO abduction and so on

2996
02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:32,479
seen today and people were sending off

2997
02:18:37,780 --> 02:18:35,210
objects into the sky in the nineteen

2998
02:18:39,940 --> 02:18:37,790
sentry to confuse I mean at that time

2999
02:18:42,640 --> 02:18:39,950
there wasn't to to get anyone to believe

3000
02:18:44,080 --> 02:18:42,650
that this was about extraterrestrials it

3001
02:18:46,209 --> 02:18:44,090
was mainly just as a joke to see what

3002
02:18:49,290 --> 02:18:46,219
the scientists would say well we're

3003
02:18:51,820 --> 02:18:49,300
talking about kind of a political in

3004
02:18:54,459 --> 02:18:51,830
socio-religious agendas that may be

3005
02:18:58,060 --> 02:18:54,469
attached to some ancient UFO reports

3006
02:18:59,919 --> 02:18:58,070
whenever someone like myself for many of

3007
02:19:03,370 --> 02:18:59,929
our listeners go online to look at

3008
02:19:06,790 --> 02:19:03,380
ancient UFO reports invariably we will

3009
02:19:09,719 --> 02:19:06,800
encounter the alleged sighting of

3010
02:19:13,540 --> 02:19:09,729
flaming shields by Alexander's army and

3011
02:19:16,660 --> 02:19:13,550
the details differ I've seen two

3012
02:19:19,690 --> 02:19:16,670
different accounts I'm not sure you know

3013
02:19:21,400 --> 02:19:19,700
how they separate out but yeah I seem to

3014
02:19:23,919 --> 02:19:21,410
remember that you kind of debunked this

3015
02:19:26,070 --> 02:19:23,929
in your book and want to give us a

3016
02:19:28,600 --> 02:19:26,080
little thumbnail sketch of the popular

3017
02:19:30,790 --> 02:19:28,610
version of this story and then what your

3018
02:19:32,259 --> 02:19:30,800
research actually determined yeah I

3019
02:19:36,400 --> 02:19:32,269
don't have it in front of me right now

3020
02:19:37,780 --> 02:19:36,410
so I have to find it I mean I can tell

3021
02:19:40,240 --> 02:19:37,790
you something about it a little bit I

3022
02:19:42,790 --> 02:19:40,250
mean as far as I recall the story of

3023
02:19:45,250 --> 02:19:42,800
Alexander and the flaming shields I mean

3024
02:19:49,390 --> 02:19:45,260
be looking for this about 15 years ago

3025
02:19:52,030 --> 02:19:49,400
and I couldn't find it and a friend of

3026
02:19:55,540 --> 02:19:52,040
mine youngest's deli honest French

3027
02:19:57,370 --> 02:19:55,550
historian who's helped a lot with with

3028
02:20:00,250 --> 02:19:57,380
me and Jake's and you know in our

3029
02:20:02,680 --> 02:20:00,260
writings and research he wrote about

3030
02:20:05,050 --> 02:20:02,690
this on his website and said that he

3031
02:20:06,910 --> 02:20:05,060
looked into this and found that it was

3032
02:20:11,020 --> 02:20:06,920
probably a story invented in nineteen

3033
02:20:12,430 --> 02:20:11,030
fifties or sixties by ufologists so

3034
02:20:15,090 --> 02:20:12,440
there's not a great deal to say about

3035
02:20:17,740 --> 02:20:15,100
the about any authentic stories of

3036
02:20:20,410 --> 02:20:17,750
strange shields seen by Alexander the

3037
02:20:24,460 --> 02:20:20,420
Great but I mean there are other Roman

3038
02:20:26,680 --> 02:20:24,470
chronicles that describe shields and

3039
02:20:29,110 --> 02:20:26,690
things in the sky which are of are of

3040
02:20:31,270 --> 02:20:29,120
interest we do look into those and in

3041
02:20:34,090 --> 02:20:31,280
the book so it's important to

3042
02:20:38,770 --> 02:20:34,100
distinguish what is modern invention and

3043
02:20:42,400 --> 02:20:38,780
fantasy from old sightings or fantasy

3044
02:20:44,530 --> 02:20:42,410
but it's it's important at least to know

3045
02:20:46,120 --> 02:20:44,540
what was invented by modern ufologists

3046
02:20:48,100 --> 02:20:46,130
you know so I don't have the details

3047
02:20:49,631 --> 02:20:48,110
with me but that's the basic idea

3048
02:20:52,541 --> 02:20:49,641
I've always wondered about that myself

3049
02:20:55,450 --> 02:20:52,551
because it seemed to Pat yeah it seemed

3050
02:20:57,100 --> 02:20:55,460
to it seemed contrived to me always when

3051
02:20:58,900 --> 02:20:57,110
it whenever I would see reference to it

3052
02:21:02,381 --> 02:20:58,910
I have another question here from

3053
02:21:04,990 --> 02:21:02,391
Poulter worst was going about why did

3054
02:21:07,480 --> 02:21:05,000
you include a shell-shaped floating sea

3055
02:21:11,110 --> 02:21:07,490
monster cited by the crew of the Nigeria

3056
02:21:12,910 --> 02:21:11,120
ship in 1813 it's the only report that

3057
02:21:15,370 --> 02:21:12,920
doesn't include something in the sky or

3058
02:21:17,140 --> 02:21:15,380
coming from or ascending into the sky or

3059
02:21:18,910 --> 02:21:17,150
whirling or zipping around in it

3060
02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:18,920
give us your thinking on why that

3061
02:21:26,320 --> 02:21:23,210
particular case was included it it was

3062
02:21:27,910 --> 02:21:26,330
it was included and not for any good

3063
02:21:32,671 --> 02:21:27,920
reason at all and it's not being

3064
02:21:35,801 --> 02:21:32,681
included in the next edition so okay

3065
02:21:37,511 --> 02:21:35,811
well he also goes on he has a whole list

3066
02:21:39,881 --> 02:21:37,521
of questions several of which we've

3067
02:21:41,770 --> 02:21:39,891
already asked but he really thanks you

3068
02:21:44,860 --> 02:21:41,780
for all the time and effort that you

3069
02:21:48,671 --> 02:21:44,870
dedicated you know for this fascinating

3070
02:21:51,131 --> 02:21:48,681
subject in your work now obviously we're

3071
02:21:53,591 --> 02:21:51,141
going with this next question outside of

3072
02:21:58,930 --> 02:21:53,601
your purview in terms of you know

3073
02:22:01,301 --> 02:21:58,940
sighting reports before 1879 or the the

3074
02:22:05,381 --> 02:22:01,311
age of flight basically but he's

3075
02:22:07,270 --> 02:22:05,391
wondering about Foo Fighters these

3076
02:22:09,220 --> 02:22:07,280
intelligent balls of light which have

3077
02:22:12,551 --> 02:22:09,230
often been described as moving

3078
02:22:14,490 --> 02:22:12,561
purposefully and intelligently and he

3079
02:22:17,051 --> 02:22:14,500
says that they're obviously not

3080
02:22:18,610 --> 02:22:17,061
exclusively a world war two phenomenon

3081
02:22:20,350 --> 02:22:18,620
on their own but part of a greater

3082
02:22:22,780 --> 02:22:20,360
phenomenon of what he would call

3083
02:22:24,700 --> 02:22:22,790
intelligent lights that as a company

3084
02:22:27,310 --> 02:22:24,710
does throughout history as some of the

3085
02:22:30,791 --> 02:22:27,320
descriptions in modern and wonders in

3086
02:22:33,551 --> 02:22:30,801
the sky would indicate these sacred

3087
02:22:35,620 --> 02:22:33,561
lamps ghost lights mystery lights the

3088
02:22:37,631 --> 02:22:35,630
has Delon phenomena on the Brown

3089
02:22:40,331 --> 02:22:37,641
Mountain lights Marfa lights the min min

3090
02:22:42,541 --> 02:22:40,341
lights what what do you make of this and

3091
02:22:45,850 --> 02:22:42,551
do you think that there's some sort of

3092
02:22:48,761 --> 02:22:45,860
possible earn as yet undefined natural

3093
02:22:51,041 --> 02:22:48,771
phenomena that may be somehow being

3094
02:22:54,900 --> 02:22:51,051
misinterpreted even in the modern day

3095
02:22:58,240 --> 02:22:54,910
for UFO activity and how much of these

3096
02:23:01,210 --> 02:22:58,250
potential misidentified you know

3097
02:23:03,429 --> 02:23:01,220
earthbound phenomena do you think

3098
02:23:06,040 --> 02:23:03,439
has contributed to the reports that you

3099
02:23:08,500 --> 02:23:06,050
and jock valet featured him wonders in

3100
02:23:10,479 --> 02:23:08,510
the sky well it's a very difficult

3101
02:23:14,019 --> 02:23:10,489
question in a sense wonders in the sky

3102
02:23:17,440 --> 02:23:14,029
was like a first attempt to bring

3103
02:23:20,769 --> 02:23:17,450
together as many reports of potential

3104
02:23:22,780 --> 02:23:20,779
UFO phenomena you know that we could

3105
02:23:25,120 --> 02:23:22,790
find in historical sources after

3106
02:23:27,130 --> 02:23:25,130
eliminating thousands I mean literally

3107
02:23:28,900 --> 02:23:27,140
thousands of cases I mean most of the

3108
02:23:31,570 --> 02:23:28,910
things that you see on the Internet just

3109
02:23:34,150 --> 02:23:31,580
not real they're this empty of content

3110
02:23:36,309 --> 02:23:34,160
and then they're completely useless so

3111
02:23:38,889 --> 02:23:36,319
it's it took us a long time to go

3112
02:23:42,729 --> 02:23:38,899
through all those what we left with is a

3113
02:23:46,780 --> 02:23:42,739
set of several hundred cases in the book

3114
02:23:50,290 --> 02:23:46,790
which seemed to indicate something that

3115
02:23:54,040 --> 02:23:50,300
we don't we would not be able to explain

3116
02:23:55,929 --> 02:23:54,050
it scientifically and we are revising

3117
02:23:58,719 --> 02:23:55,939
the book for another edition in the

3118
02:24:01,650 --> 02:23:58,729
future and we will be taking out some

3119
02:24:04,510 --> 02:24:01,660
cases and adding some new ones but

3120
02:24:06,010 --> 02:24:04,520
basically the these earth lights I mean

3121
02:24:08,860 --> 02:24:06,020
there were there are many geophysical

3122
02:24:11,099 --> 02:24:08,870
explanations for them and that they of

3123
02:24:14,500 --> 02:24:11,109
course coincide with earthquakes and

3124
02:24:15,880 --> 02:24:14,510
another earth earth movements let's go

3125
02:24:18,280 --> 02:24:15,890
look at the earth lights in our next

3126
02:24:24,860 --> 02:24:18,290
segment with Chris Harvick and Jean and

3127
02:24:30,261 --> 02:24:28,720
a little rise a little laugh but always

3128
02:24:35,110 --> 02:24:30,271
independent-minded

3129
02:24:37,761 --> 02:24:35,120
the genesis communications network GC n

3130
02:24:39,740 --> 02:24:37,771
attack of the rock ODEs has been well

3131
02:24:41,570 --> 02:24:39,750
received by critics and readers alike

3132
02:24:44,120 --> 02:24:41,580
it's a thrill a minute story you'll

3133
02:24:46,430 --> 02:24:44,130
never forget a former US military

3134
02:24:48,710 --> 02:24:46,440
intelligence officer is haunted by

3135
02:24:51,350 --> 02:24:48,720
intense dreams about a beautiful woman

3136
02:24:54,110 --> 02:24:51,360
pleading for his help after a terrible

3137
02:24:56,240 --> 02:24:54,120
battle in outer space but the dreams

3138
02:24:58,220 --> 02:24:56,250
turn out to be true and thrust him into

3139
02:25:00,920 --> 02:24:58,230
a telepathic love affair with a woman

3140
02:25:03,261 --> 02:25:00,930
whose faraway planet is intent on

3141
02:25:06,080 --> 02:25:03,271
destroying the earth and now the

3142
02:25:08,540 --> 02:25:06,090
gripping tale continues in the coming of

3143
02:25:11,180 --> 02:25:08,550
the protectors it's the second book of

3144
02:25:13,341 --> 02:25:11,190
the raccoons trilogy a galaxy spanning

3145
02:25:16,460 --> 02:25:13,351
adventure that pits our hapless heroes

3146
02:25:18,230 --> 02:25:16,470
against powerful fanatical enemies that

3147
02:25:20,900 --> 02:25:18,240
threaten the lives of freedom loving

3148
02:25:23,650 --> 02:25:20,910
beings everywhere attack of the rock

3149
02:25:26,630 --> 02:25:23,660
ODEs and the coming of the protectors

3150
02:25:29,301 --> 02:25:26,640
classic science fiction at its best

3151
02:25:33,830 --> 02:25:29,311
available now for more details visit

3152
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raah codes calm that's our Ock o IDs

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3154
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3155
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3156
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3173
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3180
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3181
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02:28:14,340 --> 02:28:12,220
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02:28:17,010 --> 02:28:14,350
receive a 60-day risk-free trial of

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02:28:21,150 --> 02:28:19,090
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3227
02:28:47,969 --> 02:28:46,060
three eight five two five two hi my name

3228
02:28:55,100 --> 02:28:47,979
is Richard Dolan you're listening to the

3229
02:29:00,390 --> 02:28:58,200
earth lights sometimes considered part

3230
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:00,400
of the UFO mystery but quite likely

3231
02:29:06,180 --> 02:29:03,130
maybe not Chris are back continue please

3232
02:29:09,710 --> 02:29:06,190
well basically it's the these are

3233
02:29:13,620 --> 02:29:09,720
luminous phenomena which caused by

3234
02:29:16,170 --> 02:29:13,630
seismic activity tectonic stress and so

3235
02:29:19,770 --> 02:29:16,180
on and they're listening connection with

3236
02:29:22,470 --> 02:29:19,780
earthquakes and volcanoes so this is

3237
02:29:24,780 --> 02:29:22,480
something that we have to to examine as

3238
02:29:27,051 --> 02:29:24,790
I said wonders in the sky is really just

3239
02:29:30,180 --> 02:29:27,061
a first step in in the right direction

3240
02:29:33,150 --> 02:29:30,190
in future works we're going to look much

3241
02:29:35,850 --> 02:29:33,160
more deeply at this what I'm doing with

3242
02:29:40,700 --> 02:29:35,860
Martin Shaw for example is is seeing

3243
02:29:45,150 --> 02:29:40,710
whether any of the lights seen by people

3244
02:29:47,730 --> 02:29:45,160
appeared in areas known for tectonic

3245
02:29:50,131 --> 02:29:47,740
stress and it's it's interesting that

3246
02:29:53,400 --> 02:29:50,141
quite often they are but then in other

3247
02:29:56,250 --> 02:29:53,410
cases they're not so if we're going to

3248
02:29:57,890 --> 02:29:56,260
blame something on ball lightning at

3249
02:30:00,720 --> 02:29:57,900
least there has to be some kind of

3250
02:30:02,820 --> 02:30:00,730
reason to believe that lightning would

3251
02:30:04,830 --> 02:30:02,830
have occurred at that point and if we

3252
02:30:06,450 --> 02:30:04,840
think that it's earth lights again we

3253
02:30:08,761 --> 02:30:06,460
have to look for some kind of mechanism

3254
02:30:12,450 --> 02:30:08,771
there or at least the area has to be

3255
02:30:16,051 --> 02:30:12,460
known for the tectonic stress so it's

3256
02:30:18,450 --> 02:30:16,061
not always easy but this is work in

3257
02:30:21,301 --> 02:30:18,460
progress so hopefully one day we'll have

3258
02:30:22,710 --> 02:30:21,311
a better idea of what's going on we're

3259
02:30:24,570 --> 02:30:22,720
going to go through a cross-section of

3260
02:30:27,150 --> 02:30:24,580
quick subjects this is our final segment

3261
02:30:30,390 --> 02:30:27,160
Chris Hovick so let me ask you here do a

3262
02:30:31,980 --> 02:30:30,400
particular all-time favorite case that

3263
02:30:35,400 --> 02:30:31,990
you would consider one of high

3264
02:30:38,520 --> 02:30:35,410
strangeness well there is so many cases

3265
02:30:39,990 --> 02:30:38,530
of high strangeness and you know some

3266
02:30:42,870 --> 02:30:40,000
some of my favorite cases are not

3267
02:30:44,940 --> 02:30:42,880
necessarily the the strangest but

3268
02:30:47,011 --> 02:30:44,950
they're they're interesting for other

3269
02:30:49,801 --> 02:30:47,021
reasons you know because they just

3270
02:30:55,261 --> 02:30:49,811
contain so many components of modern

3271
02:30:59,190 --> 02:30:55,271
cases for example we have one from 1899

3272
02:31:03,470 --> 02:30:59,200
which I quite like which mr. dr.

3273
02:31:05,940 --> 02:31:03,480
McKinnon sees from a distance a kind of

3274
02:31:07,620 --> 02:31:05,950
disk and it's actually a disk he

3275
02:31:08,041 --> 02:31:07,630
describes it with this shape and it

3276
02:31:09,541 --> 02:31:08,051
passed

3277
02:31:12,861 --> 02:31:09,551
in front of him across the countryside

3278
02:31:15,691 --> 02:31:12,871
and so there we have the the classic

3279
02:31:18,930 --> 02:31:15,701
flying-saucer shape perhaps there are

3280
02:31:22,890 --> 02:31:18,940
some stories which resemble at least

3281
02:31:25,981 --> 02:31:22,900
superficially a UFO crash of some kind

3282
02:31:29,970 --> 02:31:25,991
for example there's one from from Prague

3283
02:31:34,081 --> 02:31:29,980
in 1571 which at least reading it it

3284
02:31:36,211 --> 02:31:34,091
does evoke images from know some kind of

3285
02:31:37,951 --> 02:31:36,221
UFO retrieval and he doesn't have to do

3286
02:31:39,871 --> 02:31:37,961
that but it's just the way that it

3287
02:31:41,161 --> 02:31:39,881
sounds in fact I'll read it to you and

3288
02:31:44,220 --> 02:31:41,171
you can you can come to your own

3289
02:31:48,781 --> 02:31:44,230
conclusion this is from the 20th the

3290
02:31:51,720 --> 02:31:48,791
20th of July 15 71 from Prague and this

3291
02:31:53,731 --> 02:31:51,730
is a genuine document it says about

3292
02:31:55,741 --> 02:31:53,741
midnight there was a great wind over

3293
02:31:57,961 --> 02:31:55,751
Prague that made such a rumbling noise

3294
02:32:00,001 --> 02:31:57,971
that it sounded like an earthquake the

3295
02:32:01,981 --> 02:32:00,011
people woke up with a start and hurried

3296
02:32:03,361 --> 02:32:01,991
to the windows looking towards the

3297
02:32:06,001 --> 02:32:03,371
cattle fair today

3298
02:32:09,060 --> 02:32:06,011
Charles Square they saw a marching army

3299
02:32:10,921 --> 02:32:09,070
coming along Spadina Street the soldiers

3300
02:32:12,720 --> 02:32:10,931
held their weapons in their hands and

3301
02:32:15,600 --> 02:32:12,730
witnesses found their appearance

3302
02:32:17,761 --> 02:32:15,610
somewhat unnerving behind the soldiers

3303
02:32:21,180 --> 02:32:17,771
came something resembling a large round

3304
02:32:23,640 --> 02:32:21,190
chariot drawn by oxen the object which

3305
02:32:26,791 --> 02:32:23,650
made a loud noise was apparently made of

3306
02:32:29,251 --> 02:32:26,801
metal and had no wheels eight large

3307
02:32:31,231 --> 02:32:29,261
human figures marched behind the vehicle

3308
02:32:33,841 --> 02:32:31,241
they looked frightful because they had

3309
02:32:36,511 --> 02:32:33,851
no faces but wore enormous spurs on

3310
02:32:38,970 --> 02:32:36,521
their feet adding to the noise once they

3311
02:32:40,801 --> 02:32:38,980
crossed the square a great fire appeared

3312
02:32:43,261 --> 02:32:40,811
on the ground in front of the Church of

3313
02:32:45,720 --> 02:32:43,271
the Sacred Heart on one side of the fire

3314
02:32:48,031 --> 02:32:45,730
there were a large number of boxes and

3315
02:32:49,861 --> 02:32:48,041
on the other there were barrels these

3316
02:32:52,621 --> 02:32:49,871
barrels looked as if they could have

3317
02:32:54,421 --> 02:32:52,631
been used to transport gunpowder the big

3318
02:32:56,310 --> 02:32:54,431
chariot arrived near the fire and all

3319
02:32:58,921 --> 02:32:56,320
the boxes and barrels were thrown on it

3320
02:33:01,501 --> 02:32:58,931
then again a frightful wind arose at the

3321
02:33:03,421 --> 02:33:01,511
same time as a kind of rain of fire then

3322
02:33:06,001 --> 02:33:03,431
all this horrifying vision disappeared

3323
02:33:08,701 --> 02:33:06,011
however a luminous object could be made

3324
02:33:11,581 --> 02:33:08,711
out in the air a circle of fire that

3325
02:33:13,651 --> 02:33:11,591
persisted until dawn and then it says

3326
02:33:17,371 --> 02:33:13,661
that that year there was a great famine

3327
02:33:20,490 --> 02:33:17,381
and many people died so whatever this

3328
02:33:22,591 --> 02:33:20,500
was that people saw this large round

3329
02:33:24,631 --> 02:33:22,601
object being dragged in the street by

3330
02:33:27,511 --> 02:33:24,641
soldiers and strange figures without

3331
02:33:29,461 --> 02:33:27,521
faces giants walking behind it that

3332
02:33:32,251 --> 02:33:29,471
suddenly disappeared is leaving a circle

3333
02:33:34,381 --> 02:33:32,261
of fire people did think that that might

3334
02:33:38,490 --> 02:33:34,391
be connected with the famine know sounds

3335
02:33:40,621 --> 02:33:38,500
pretty ice strange to me let me ask you

3336
02:33:42,780 --> 02:33:40,631
quickly here because we only have very

3337
02:33:46,020 --> 02:33:42,790
few minutes left for Sabich and that is

3338
02:33:47,820 --> 02:33:46,030
do you see ever reaching a point in your

3339
02:33:49,831 --> 02:33:47,830
lifetime and it probably won't happen in

3340
02:33:52,320 --> 02:33:49,841
mine and since you're the young

3341
02:33:54,841 --> 02:33:52,330
whippersnapper on the show and we got to

3342
02:33:57,150 --> 02:33:54,851
snap the whip here and that is you ever

3343
02:33:59,341 --> 02:33:57,160
see a Final Solution coming to your

3344
02:34:02,430 --> 02:33:59,351
investigations or is it going to be just

3345
02:34:05,131 --> 02:34:02,440
more information for posterity no I'm in

3346
02:34:07,501 --> 02:34:05,141
a sense I've I've stood back from what

3347
02:34:09,661 --> 02:34:07,511
is just general research we have some

3348
02:34:11,341 --> 02:34:09,671
excellent researchers in the group it

3349
02:34:14,820 --> 02:34:11,351
means people who are funding some of the

3350
02:34:17,041 --> 02:34:14,830
most amazing cases there's a woman

3351
02:34:19,610 --> 02:34:17,051
called a came a single who I'm going to

3352
02:34:21,930 --> 02:34:19,620
see next week in fact go higher and

3353
02:34:24,240 --> 02:34:21,940
she's contributed some of the most

3354
02:34:27,001 --> 02:34:24,250
amazing stories I mean really these are

3355
02:34:29,190 --> 02:34:27,011
just just the surface of what we've

3356
02:34:31,680 --> 02:34:29,200
found over the last few years I think

3357
02:34:34,770 --> 02:34:31,690
she's found 7,000 or 8,000 very

3358
02:34:37,770 --> 02:34:34,780
impressive stories herself but myself

3359
02:34:39,591 --> 02:34:37,780
I'm withdrawing more and more from what

3360
02:34:43,430 --> 02:34:39,601
is general research and getting into

3361
02:34:47,520 --> 02:34:43,440
mini projects and trying to analyze

3362
02:34:49,230 --> 02:34:47,530
cases on their own merits and I don't

3363
02:34:51,360 --> 02:34:49,240
think that we're ever going to find some

3364
02:34:52,921 --> 02:34:51,370
kind of interconnectedness between all

3365
02:34:56,551 --> 02:34:52,931
of these stories what we're going to see

3366
02:34:59,251 --> 02:34:56,561
is groups of cases which might indicate

3367
02:35:01,591 --> 02:34:59,261
I don't know alien visitors they might

3368
02:35:04,291 --> 02:35:01,601
indicate parallel universes they might

3369
02:35:06,841 --> 02:35:04,301
indicate just human fantasy there might

3370
02:35:08,820 --> 02:35:06,851
be something else but there's always

3371
02:35:11,341 --> 02:35:08,830
going to be a lot of mini projects in

3372
02:35:13,171 --> 02:35:11,351
this way and the real problem really is

3373
02:35:15,421 --> 02:35:13,181
that there are too many people hoping

3374
02:35:17,791 --> 02:35:15,431
that it's all connected in some way and

3375
02:35:19,650 --> 02:35:17,801
they connect cattle mutilations to I

3376
02:35:22,680 --> 02:35:19,660
don't know what which they're all very

3377
02:35:25,350 --> 02:35:22,690
interesting on their own terms but we

3378
02:35:27,030 --> 02:35:25,360
have to step back and be a little bit

3379
02:35:29,251 --> 02:35:27,040
more realistic and say okay we have this

3380
02:35:31,261 --> 02:35:29,261
body of phenomena here another body of

3381
02:35:33,389 --> 02:35:31,271
phenomena over there each one has to be

3382
02:35:35,699 --> 02:35:33,399
analyzed on its own terms and we can

3383
02:35:38,010 --> 02:35:35,709
that everything is related and that's

3384
02:35:40,290 --> 02:35:38,020
the only way forward I mean that and

3385
02:35:43,290 --> 02:35:40,300
using digital resources which is what I

3386
02:35:46,710 --> 02:35:43,300
use now whether it's looking at ancient

3387
02:35:49,769 --> 02:35:46,720
old census records and digging up

3388
02:35:52,559 --> 02:35:49,779
newspapers and maps and all kinds of

3389
02:35:55,739 --> 02:35:52,569
things it's the only way forward to to

3390
02:35:59,219 --> 02:35:55,749
look at this from the scientific point

3391
02:36:01,800 --> 02:35:59,229
of view that many researchers complain

3392
02:36:04,920 --> 02:36:01,810
doesn't exist because scientists don't

3393
02:36:07,529 --> 02:36:04,930
pay enough attention to it so that is

3394
02:36:09,479 --> 02:36:07,539
for me the future of this subject where

3395
02:36:11,159 --> 02:36:09,489
can we find more of the stuff that you

3396
02:36:14,389 --> 02:36:11,169
do do you have a site that we can check

3397
02:36:18,510 --> 02:36:14,399
out you don't have a site people can

3398
02:36:20,010 --> 02:36:18,520
Facebook they can find Chris or Beck

3399
02:36:21,239 --> 02:36:20,020
there's only one of the Chris will pick

3400
02:36:24,059 --> 02:36:21,249
in the world and he's a young guitar

3401
02:36:25,590 --> 02:36:24,069
player in Germany so I'd recommend they

3402
02:36:27,599 --> 02:36:25,600
have a look at the face of the guy who's

3403
02:36:29,159 --> 02:36:27,609
whose profile it is on fit on the on a

3404
02:36:31,769 --> 02:36:29,169
Facebook page so not to inundate him

3405
02:36:34,050 --> 02:36:31,779
with requests but apart from that they

3406
02:36:36,179 --> 02:36:34,060
can have a look a go near exchange in

3407
02:36:37,559 --> 02:36:36,189
Google they'll go to the they'll find

3408
02:36:39,540 --> 02:36:37,569
the Yahoo archive they can become a

3409
02:36:41,639 --> 02:36:39,550
member of the group and they can receive

3410
02:36:45,149 --> 02:36:41,649
exactly the same as what everybody else

3411
02:36:47,279 --> 02:36:45,159
is receiving on a daily basis and these

3412
02:36:49,500 --> 02:36:47,289
days I'm a little bit more flexible

3413
02:36:51,809 --> 02:36:49,510
about the rules so whoever wants to join

3414
02:36:54,229 --> 02:36:51,819
doesn't need necessarily to start

3415
02:36:58,769 --> 02:36:54,239
contributing things because I mean after

3416
02:37:01,170 --> 02:36:58,779
amassing there's 40,000 item archive

3417
02:37:04,349 --> 02:37:01,180
that we already have I don't think

3418
02:37:07,170 --> 02:37:04,359
anyone in their lifetime could raid that

3419
02:37:09,349 --> 02:37:07,180
it can be completely impossible so if

3420
02:37:12,569 --> 02:37:09,359
anyone wants to join that's great and

3421
02:37:14,580 --> 02:37:12,579
they can find me on on Facebook Chris

3422
02:37:16,739 --> 02:37:14,590
saw Beck we want you back in the near

3423
02:37:19,349 --> 02:37:16,749
future a lot more to discuss a lot more

3424
02:37:20,609 --> 02:37:19,359
things that we didn't cover next week on

3425
02:37:22,319 --> 02:37:20,619
the power cast by the way we'll have

3426
02:37:25,880 --> 02:37:22,329
Robert Salas he has a new book out

3427
02:37:28,380 --> 02:37:25,890
called unidentified the UFO phenomenon

3428
02:37:31,409 --> 02:37:28,390
subtitled how world governments have

3429
02:37:33,870 --> 02:37:31,419
conspired to conceal humanity's biggest

3430
02:37:35,939 --> 02:37:33,880
secret that's Robert Salas of course he

3431
02:37:38,399 --> 02:37:35,949
was involved in the mounts from UFO case

3432
02:37:40,830 --> 02:37:38,409
that's coming next week more to tell you

3433
02:37:42,630 --> 02:37:40,840
here if you want a free copy of Chris

3434
02:37:44,819 --> 02:37:42,640
O'Brien's secrets of the mysterious

3435
02:37:46,729 --> 02:37:44,829
valley here's what you do go to the

3436
02:37:49,609 --> 02:37:46,739
power cast calm

3437
02:37:52,130 --> 02:37:49,619
Perik ascom sign up for our weekly

3438
02:37:54,679 --> 02:37:52,140
podcast newsletter and within a couple

3439
02:37:56,630 --> 02:37:54,689
of days we'll send out your link to

3440
02:37:58,969 --> 02:37:56,640
download your copy of secrets of the

3441
02:38:00,679 --> 02:37:58,979
mysterious body by Chris O'Brien and by

3442
02:38:03,590 --> 02:38:00,689
the way Chris O'Brien has his own site

3443
02:38:06,559 --> 02:38:03,600
our strange planet com recently updated

3444
02:38:09,920 --> 02:38:06,569
with a new cattle mutilation case that

3445
02:38:13,010 --> 02:38:09,930
he and David Perkins have covered so go

3446
02:38:14,599 --> 02:38:13,020
to our strange planet calm if you want

3447
02:38:17,119 --> 02:38:14,609
to ask questions of our guests here's

3448
02:38:20,719 --> 02:38:17,129
another place to go to the para cast

3449
02:38:23,539 --> 02:38:20,729
come the power cast calm or forum doc

3450
02:38:27,079 --> 02:38:23,549
the power cast calm by the way we have

3451
02:38:29,899 --> 02:38:27,089
archives of every single show every

3452
02:38:33,260 --> 02:38:29,909
single episode the power cast over 450

3453
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:33,270
strong and growing and one more thing on

3454
02:38:38,599 --> 02:38:35,850
Twitter we're known as the para cast we

3455
02:38:41,359 --> 02:38:38,609
are the power cast on Twitter Chris aw

3456
02:38:43,369 --> 02:38:41,369
Beck we really had a great time talking

3457
02:38:52,760 --> 02:38:43,379
with you today thank you for joining us

3458
02:38:59,160 --> 02:38:56,280
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3459
02:39:02,179 --> 02:38:59,170
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3460
02:39:05,880 --> 02:39:02,189
presentation of making the impossible